Think long & hard. Don't let the doctor rush you!

I had my pm installed 9 days ago. I was told that it would fix my tachycardia and that I had to have it. I didn't have any time to think - 4 days later the surgery was over. I was told that it had to be done in a matter of days.

My pm has never fired yet. And after it's all done I find out it's not for tachycardia. It's a safety feature only to be used if my pulse gets too low. While the doctor said that I was taking too high a dose of beta blocker 9 days ago, now he wants to super medicate me to the point where my pulse could drop down too low and my pacemaker would kick in.

I've been grossly misled by the doctor. I asked to have the pm removed and he said that if I forced him to do that he would have my license revoked because I don't have any way of preventing my pulse from going too low. Yet in the 9 months it took him to decide on a treatment that was never an issue. It's a threat because if I force it to be removed it will show that it was an unnecessary surgery.

If you're told that you need a pacemaker, don't let the doctor talk you into it. Take the time and get a second opinion. Decide for yourself. I wish I had.

8 Comments

golden_snitch

by MarvinTheMartian - 2015-08-09 07:08:00

No, I don't know what kind of tachycardia I have. I don't know if it's atrial, where or why it originates. The only information the cardiologist will tell me is that I have tachycardia. And the implant is a pacemaker, not an ICD. The cardio says my pm will likely never fire in its lifetime.

Theknotguy, I have never suffered from bradycardia. That's not my problem. When I'm awake my heart goes between 115 and 223, and the longer this is going on, the higher my resting heart rate is. 180 is quite normal now. I've never blacked out. One 3-second time when I skipped a beat or two is not enough to warrant a pacemaker., And certainly not as a side effect of medication. I can't continue with beta blockers because of the side effects. I don't have afib, I have no flutter. No other course of action has been suggested. When I was on the first beta blocker my pulse continued into the 180s. My cardio wouldn't change it. It took an ER doctor to change it. Ablation has never been suggested, nor has it been investigated.

And yes, the pm is coming out, no matter what. I'm not jumping up and down, screaming, yelling, and throwing things. Sheesh.

Marvin ?????

by IAN MC - 2015-08-09 07:08:40

This is your second post moreorless saying the same thing.

How exactly do you think your Dr should treat your tachycardia after you have your PM removed ????

Drugs for tachycardia can cause bradycardia ; bradycardia can make you feel pretty bad or you may even black out, pacemakers can prevent this from happening !

Your Dr may have to "super medicate" you to treat your tachycardia , do you have better ways of treating it ?

Ian

Hi Marvin

by IAN MC - 2015-08-09 08:08:32

No I'm not a Dr and hope that I have never dispensed medical advice . I am just a patient who has had tachycardia, an ablation and a pacemaker . I have picked up some knowledge along the way as have all of us.

If I were you I would definitely follow every word in your last sentence. I would do it sooner rather than later.

If you do decide to have the PM removed after seeing a reputable Dr ; then the sooner the better before too much scar tissue builds up.

Best of luck

Ian








Not really

by MarvinTheMartian - 2015-08-09 08:08:58

Thanks for your reply, Ian. I gather that you are a doctor by the medical advice you give.

This post was about being informed. I was misled and told wrong information so that the doctor could get a pacemaker in me. I wasn't told the plan and was rushed into getting this under the premise of an emergency, which it was far from. Had the cardiologist been honest with me then I could have denied this treatment and wouldn't have undergone needless surgery.

There are other ways to treat tachycardia. Ablation is one and that has never been investigated (in my case) to see if it's an option.

As I have serious side effects to the beta blocker I'm on, I'm not prepared to be "super medicated" on this no matter what. There are many options yet to be investigated.

And as for how the doctor will be treating me after the pm is removed, that's no longer up to him. I won't continue with a doctor who lies to me and misleads me. I found out after the surgery that he owns the pacemaker clinic that sells all of the pacemakers to the hospital. This, in itself, is a conflict of interest.

I'll find a reputable doctor and discuss my options.

Ablation

by golden_snitch - 2015-08-09 08:08:58

Marvin, do you know what kind of atrial tachycardia you have? Nowadays most atrial tachys can indeed be treated successfully by catheter ablation. Patients in whom at least a betablocker and one anti-arrhythmic drug should be tried first - according to guidelines - are usually atrial fibrillation patients; in most other atrial tachy patients catheter ablation is first line therapy. And sometimes even atrial fibrillation patients (young and with no other heart issues) are given the choice whether to give drugs a try or go straight for an ablation. However, with regards to afib ablations one needs to know what one procedure often does not do the trick, but two or three ablation procedures are needed.

Do your homework (research). We often have new members here who feel that they have been rushed into getting a pacemaker by their doctor. But, to be honest, there's a doctor who rushes a patient into something AND a patient who allows this to happen.

I know that doctors can be very convincing. Some even threaten patients that, if they don't agree to what the doctor says, then they will be much worse off (some even threaten patients by telling them that they will die). So, I understand that it's sometimes very difficult to not agree to what the doctor says. But you have been dealing with tachycardia for nine months already, so that gave you quite a lot of time to do some research on your treatment options. Apparently, you didn't do so. You only started after the pacemaker had been put in. So, while I do understand all you anger about your doctor not telling you the truth, you should also admit that you didn't do your job as a patient. This is not something that's completely up to the doctor to fix. You, as a patient, should get informed, too. After all, it's you who makes the decision, not the doctor.

As you and Ian have already said, finding a good heart rhythm specialist for a second opinion is probably the best thing you can do now.

Best wishes!
Inga

ICD??

by dhusemann - 2015-08-09 11:08:05

you say a Pacemaker and some people call an ICD a pacemaker (which it technically is) from your statements and your understanding from the messages I have read.

Your understanding is a device which provides pules to speed up a slow heart. or a pacemaker that provides low grade shocks to increase the heart rate of a heart in bradycardia.

I would counter that your Cardiologist was concerned enough with your tachycardia to have an ICD installed.

It has pacemaker capabilities. so if your heart rate does drop it will pace the heart.

In the case of irregular rhythm an icd may try to force the heart into a faster pace which has been found that the response for the heart to return to a more normal rhythm.

finally if that doesn't work, the device will issue a shock to defibrillator the heart.

All ICD's are pacemakers, not all pacemakers are ICD's
D

Doctors aren't communicators

by Theknotguy - 2015-08-09 12:08:40

I won't argue that you'll want a new doctor. I get very tired of the ones with the over inflated egos too. Post getting my PM I was told to get an ablation immediately but my EP told me to hold off. The doctor in the hospital sees ablations every day so it's no big deal to him. My EP has to deal with patients every day so he has to listen to the complaints. In the meantime, medical science progresses.

I have afib. If the doctors don't treat it, my heart beats so fast it will kill me. When they gave me the beta blockers to stop the fast heartbeats, my heart went so slow it almost killed me. So I was between the proverbial rock and a hard place. Solution is to use drugs to slow my heart down, then use the PM to bring it back up to speed. Sounds very much like what was described to you, doesn't it?

The trick is to come up with a solution that allows you to live a normal life without killing you. I now have a regimen of drugs that keeps the afib and fast heartbeats (for the most part) under control and the PM steps in if my heartbeat is too slow or if my heart decides to quit.

The way I found out about the slow heartbeat was when I was out on the trail with the dogs. Turned the corner, everything started to turn black. Next thing I knew, they were waking me up in the hospital. Broken rib, collapsed lung, three cracked ribs, chest tube, and a PM. That was six days later as I was in a coma for the whole time. It's taken me the better part of two years to get back to 100%. I wish my doctor would have discussed getting a PM before I went through my ordeal. Oh, and it turns out I have the kind of afib that doesn't respond well to ablation.

Was your doctor aggressive? Possibly. Did he communicate well? Don't think so. Was he wrong? Could be. There are many ways your scenario could have played out. One of them could have included dying two times like mine did or you could still be walking around trying to make a decision about what to do.

With the PM you don't have to worry about your heart stopping. If it does, the PM steps in and keeps it going. What you really don't want is for your heart to start beating so fast it spirals out of control and it kills you. I almost had it happen to me. Post PM went into an afib session with RVR. Just sitting in bed my heart rate went from 60BPM to 140BPM and was heading upwards. A quick trip to the ER, then some adjustments to my meds. Haven't had a similar session since and don't want one. So I can tell you from personal experience going through a fast heartbeat session that is spiraling out of control is no fun.

Have also had a couple of sessions where my heart just decided to stop. Start to get the light headed feeling. Then feel the PM kick in and I get to keep on going. Beats passing out on the trail and having EMT's practice their CPR. In this area, EMT's are told that if they don't break a rib giving CPR, they aren't doing adequate compressions. I'd like to argue that point, but since I'm alive instead of dead I guess they proved their point.

So if you want to jump up and down, scream, yell, and throw things, go right ahead. After you've calmed down a bit, think about what happened to me and maybe, just maybe, your doctor saved you from my fate. He didn't communicate very well. Won't argue that. Maybe he had just read the medical article describing what happened to me, said to himself, "Jeez, I've got a patient like that!", and stepped in to take care of the problem.
So before you take your PM out, do some research on the alternatives. Sometimes they are a lot worse than you can imagine.

To mad pm guy

by Itsamissy - 2015-08-11 03:08:06

You do know that if you have an ablation done and it fails, you'll then NEED a pacemaker regardless?

You know you're wired when...

Friends call you the bionic woman.

Member Quotes

I've seen many posts about people being concerned about exercise after having a device so thought I would let you know that yesterday I raced my first marathon since having my pacemaker fitted in fall 2004.