electronics

So the only way for me to clean baked on tins from Christmas cooking was in the laundry trough, and then balancing them on a towel on top of the washing machine to dry them. The machine was busy washing all the grandchildren's' clothes. As I leaned near the machine, it stopped, but started again when I moved away. I checked to see whether I had accidentally leant on the controls, but I hadn't. So I tried several times moving close and it stopped every time. When I had finished drying the tins up it would not happen again. So I think there must have been some sort of reaction between tins, pm and machine. I was ok. The washing machine is at pm level. Any comments?
Alma Annie

11 Comments

Sorry, can't believe you

by Theknotguy - 2013-12-25 09:12:53

Sorry but I can't really believe your description. It sounds like you're really pulling my leg. I don't see any way your PM would affect any washing machine. Good try.

Ghost?

by Jonny - 2013-12-25 10:12:05

I reckon there's a ghost playing with you, or your grandkids. No other explanation I can think of. At least it did you know harm and that's the main thing. Best of luck. John

My Father-in-Law at work...

by donr - 2013-12-26 01:12:10

...he has been dead for nearly 30 yrs - but his ghost mucks around w/ electrical things at our house.

OK, Annie - the tongue is out of the cheek now - BUT...
I know nothing about Aussie washing machines. Describe yours a bit better.

Works on either 240 Volts, 50 Hz or by a 'roo in a circular cage who keeps running/hopping.

How about the controls - can you direct me to a web site that would describe your machines & their controls?

If you say it's happening - it's happening. And - there has to be a reason for it.

Happy Boxing Day, BTW.

Don

???????

by Alma Annie - 2013-12-26 03:12:37

Yes it really did happen,no joking!!! Actually my husband always says I have some odd electricity in me as according to him I am the one who always mucks up the computer! "What have you done now?" "Nothing" I answer. Then I wait for him to put it right, which he does mainly but not always; he has to call our computer wiz son!!
The machine is a top loader Samsung. We have 240 vaults here in Oz. I really don't know the model no. But it is electronic as I think most are these days.
I think it had more to do with the wet tins than the pm, which again is odd. Maybe it was all these ghosts playing silly nonsense over Christmas, especially Don's Father in Law!!
I hope you all had a good Christmas.
Alma Annie

Tins and things

by Alma Annie - 2013-12-26 06:12:22

Hi Don,
Nothing happens when dry. but I have just reproduced it when tin and my hands are wet. The controls are in the front, horizontal but slightly sloping down. The tin is a non stick, but I am not sure what metal. As tin goes near the controls, the machine stops. I needed wet hands too.
I think I will have to call in a mechanic. Thanks for all your help and advice. Nothing to do with the pm (I hope!!)
Hope you had a good Boxing Day. It is now Friday 9 am here.
Alma Annie

Annie: THIS IS NOT A JOKE!!!!!!.

by donr - 2013-12-26 09:12:40

You may well have a VERY SERIOUS problem as a FIRE HAZARD w/ your machine.

Nothing to do w/ your PM, trust me on that.

I Googled Samsung top loader washer Australia & found a fire safety recall on 7 machines. One of them fits the description you gave me - controls in FRONT. They are not sold in the US, so I was surprised to find such a device.

Here is the URL for the site announcing the recall.

http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/ftw/About_us/News_and_events/Media_releases/2013_media_releases/20130430_electrical_safety_recall_of_samsung.page

There have been 15 fires that started in one of these machines.. The recall started in April 2013. Samsung will fix it free. They have been very cagey in the announcement & will not say exactly what the problem is, but hint that it is a grounding issue.

If you cannot find the page, send me a note & I'll copy & paste the info for you.

I guessed right, basically. W/ that tin right over the controls & your wet hands, you made a great capacitor as far as the washer controls were concerned. BTW: that "Tin" will probably be steel, coated w/ a silicon compound to make it non-stick. Probably not aluminum.

The reason we call them "Tins" is that once upon a time before non-stick was invented, they were tin plated to keep them from corroding. Tin cans still are tin plated for that reason.

You did not say - do you have a bare concrete floor in your laundry room? Also, do you own a pair of good old fashioned Wellies (they don't have to fit)? Just for the curiosity of it, put them on & re-try the experiment. They would be a great insulator between you & the floor & either confirm or refute my hypothesis as to what is happening.

Let me know what happens.

Don

It may be Boxing...

by donr - 2013-12-26 10:12:45

...Day, but I'm open for business!

Top loader Samsung, 240 Volt - Hmmmmm.

This means that the controls are all in the rear on a section that sticks up above the top, or lid surface, & pretty much an arm's length fro the front of the machine. IF it is truly electronic, as you guess, there could well be a grounding problem causing this to happen. (Read that as an "Earthing problem if you use that term.)

Since Oz is a civilized country w/ 24/7 electricity of the 240 Volt variety & most likely a concrete floor in the laundry area, this very definitely sounds like a grounding problem. An unintentional one at that.

True electronic sensing consists of a lot of "Touch" type sensors that operate off of an electric phenomenon called "Capacitance." Capacitance requires that you bring an electrical conductor (Your finger) close to a sensor of some type, but not actually touch it. Your finger is separated from the sensor by an insulator (Something that won't conduct electricity. Just like a lamp that turns on or off or dims by stages when you touch some metal part of it.)

I'll betcha that you had those tins leaning against the control console in the rear, from your description, w/ a towel on the lid surface. The tins were wet; your hands were wet; when you touched them, w/ your feet on a perhaps concrete floor, you momentarily made a pretty good capacitive connection to ground (the concrete) which triggered a sensor of some type.

Try this. Take the tins DRY w/ a DRY towel & DRY hands & repeat all that you did while cleaning the tins. See if it happens then.

Either way, I'd have the grounding of the machine checked. You may have a subtle very high resistance connection between the AC power supply to the machine & your ground.

The metal frame of the machine is supposed to have a very LOW resistance to ground to protect YOU from stray short circuits that could kill. MOF, it has a dedicated wire that connects the frame to ground for just that purpose. IF your electrical system is the same as in the UK, your washer has a three prong plug. The two that are parallel to one another are the "Hot" (Power side & the third prong that is by itself & either angled differently that the other two - or perhaps round - is the ground (Safety) lead that protects you from being the Ground lead.

Maybe DonB from Michigan wil see this post & comment. I THINK he's an old appliance repairman. Also - there's a washer expert in the UK who I have exchanged notes on these subjects before - he may come out of his Christmas/Boxing Day hibernation & bachanillia & answer.

God hunting!

Donr (the other Don in the US)

fire hazard.

by Alma Annie - 2013-12-27 02:12:35

Oh dear. Thanks for the warning.I would be grateful for you to send me the details. I am a bit of a dither now. I suppose I should not use the machine, and as it is Saturday tomorrow, I will have to wait until Monday to call Samsung.
Alma Annie.

THANKS

by Alma Annie - 2013-12-27 08:12:52

For all your help Don. I did phone Samsung last night, my model is not one of the recalled ones. It was suggested I need a wm mechanic to inspect it. I tried it this am wearing welly boots, and it still happened. So I think I won't put wet tins on machine when it is washing. Yes I have a concrete floor which is tiled.
Yes time zones can be awkward. I usually have to google overseas time. Thanks again.
Alma Annie

Tiled floor

by donr - 2013-12-27 09:12:14

Annie - Never been so glad to be wrong. Truly glad your machine is not among them. You still should have a WM Mechanic look at it. That just is not right. I'm surprised that the Wellies didn't stop it from happening.

BTW: A tile floor is just as bad as bare concrete. Unless you have vinyl tile. Most tiles are relatively porous & are water saturated when on floors.

If I can be of any other help, let me know.

Anothere BTW: your msg came through date/time stamped 2013-12-27 20:20. Which means it is dated according to the location of the server, which is in one of CAnada's Maratime Provinces a time zone east of where I live.

Don

Annie on fire

by donr - 2013-12-27 10:12:47

Annie - here it is. I've copied the relevant paragraphs that tell you what to do & how to determine if you are affected.

You do NOT have to wait till Mon to call Samsung, They are answering the phone 24/7, just waiting for Annie to call! This is a very serious problem to them, as the potential for it to be your problem is for you.

I copied this by using the link I sent you last night, so I know it works, so if you want to see the whole article, including photos of burned up machines, go to it.

Begin paste:
"Electrical safety recall of Samsung top loading washing machines
30 April 2013

Samsung Electronics Australia Pty Ltd is recalling six models of top loading washing machines due to a risk of fire.

The models are: SW75V9WIP; SW65V9WIP; SW70SPWIP; SW80SPWIP; WA85GWGIP; and, WA85GWWIP.

Samsung has advised NSW Fair Trading that 150,000 machines have been sold in Australia through various retailers between 2010 and 2013, including 62,285 in New South Wales. Another 36,000 machines have been sold in New Zealand.

There have been 15 fire incidents involving machines around Australia, including six fires in NSW. Fire & Rescue NSW (FRNSW) fire investigators identified safety concerns with the washing machines after firefighters attended at least six fires linked to the appliances since last November.

Fires occur when internal water condenses onto an internal connector (motor connection) causing tracking.

Fair Trading Commissioner Rod Stowe urged anyone with a Samsung top loading washing machine to check the model details.

“Visit www.samsung.com.au, call 1800 239 655 24 hours, 7 days a week or 1800 680 174 between 8am – 8pm 7 days a week, or email wm.samsung@samsung.com to find out if your machine is affected,” he said.

“Samsung will arrange for an authorised service technician to provide a free in-home service for all affected models.

“If your model is an affected model, until the service is performed, Samsung recommends that as a precautionary measure, you only use your washing machine if you are present or nearby to monitor it.

“If you notice any smoke or smell coming out of the washing machine, turn off the machine at the power point.”
End paste.

Good luck w/ your machine.

Annie - we have fun w/ the International Date Line, don't we? I lived on your side of it for 4 yrs while I was in the US Army assigned to Japan - 13 hours & a whole day away from the east coast of the US, where family lived.

The Saturday before Easter in 1975 I flew from Hawaii (East of the IDL) to Guam (west of the IDL). We crossed the IDL out in the middle of the Pacific Ocean right at midnight, so completely lost Easter Sunday for all aboard that plane. Oh, well...

Don

You know you're wired when...

You get your device tuned-up for hot dates.

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