CPR/ AED and First Aid Class

My Husband and I took the class yesterday. It was a very good class, informative and fun, I highly recommend it. We took the class through the American Heart Association, a GREAT organization. It also covered child and infant CPR and First Aid....just about everything.....but NOT everything.

I asked in the beginning of the class if they talk about CPR on someone with a pacemaker/ ICD. The Nurse/ Instructor said yes they will. We went through the whole class and watched numerous videos, then applied what we learned on practice dummies...adults and infants for part of the test as well as a written test.

After the testing, I asked again about CPR on a person with a pacemaker/ ICD. The Nurse then acknowledged that they did not talk about it in the video and basically said you would use the AED in the same way, just avoid putting the shock pads over the device. (Yes, I already knew this but maybe others in the class did not and it was a little disturbing that this wasn't addressed in the video). IMO

While filling out the evaluation sheet (all high marks for the Instructor) there was a question regarding what other classes you would like to see from the AHA. Of course I wrote down a pacemaker/ ICD class. At the very end of the class, I asked the Instructor/ Nurse if they give those classes. Her response: "No. They feel if you have a pacemaker or ICD you should know all about it".

Any comments??

Grateful Heart

13 Comments

Know all about it??

by kmom - 2014-04-06 02:04:37

Geez! I feel like i'm being dumped into the fire ha! there is so much to know and learn. by the way i'm getting my PM tomorrow! and taking a crash course in PM 101
I think it would be really nice if they taught a class or something to learn about the devices and the CPR etc for those who have the devices.

You should know all about it???

by robo-ver - 2014-04-06 03:04:11

I dont know about you grateful Heart, but when Ive been unconscious, I have a limited ability to give instructions? Hmm I think there should definitely be a section on Pacemaker/ICD CPR, even if its just mentioned in the class that you are able to administer it. Im sure that some people would be scared to use pressure on our chests but if they knew this was OK it could save our lives. I know some of my friends dont really now how my pacemaker works, they think that it would just keep my heart going for me without the need for CPR......maybe I should hold a mini pacemaker class at home!

Robo-Ver xx

Well I've never thought about it...

by Harrie - 2014-04-06 05:04:08

Let alone knowing all about out. I must ask one of the First Aid people at work if they cover it in their annual refresher classes.

If we don't know how do others?

by Marie12 - 2014-04-06 08:04:25

At my last interrogation, I asked the EP if it was OK for someone to use an AED on me if something happened. Co-workers had asked me to find out.

He said my ICD was better than any AED and I should never need one, however, that while it wouldn't hurt me if used, it could damage the ICD. My concern is that if you are unconscious how do you stop someone from using it on you.

It should definitely be covered in First Aid and CPR courses. Yes, we may know the right thing but those taking these courses should be instructed on proper procedures for people with ICDs and Pacemakers. It is hard to believe that it isn't.

If EMT's don't look.....

by donr - 2014-04-06 09:04:42

.....for PM/ICD's, why on earth should we expect the great, unwashed masses to do so?

I agree w/ you. GH. That SHOULD be covered by a CPR course.

At least if we had a cadre of trained non-pro's out looking, we'd be a bit ahead of the game.

It is NOT a simple task to use the paddles on an ICD Host. It sure would help if people knew in advance of needing to use one for them to know HOW to use it.

It is simple to the people who write the instructions - but I suspect it is daunting to Six Pack Charlie who walks up to one & has to read the instructions under the stress of needing to use it to save a life.

I'll give you a personal example of a similar situation.

Last Fri, I had to turn off my Wife's PM for her bladder in prep for a minor (in concept) surgery that would use electrocautery. I knew the day before I would have to do this. I'd turned the device on & off several times at home. When the time came & the OR Tech was standing there, watching, I suddenly drew a memory cramp & fumbled around a bit groping for the correct buttons on the small controller we used to operate the implant. In desperation, I quickly called the Medtronic Rep, who confirmed for me that I had done it correctly.

Yes - classes are needed for these subjects.

Donr

cpr class

by Tracey_E - 2014-04-06 09:04:59

It was covered in my class,the instructor even passed one around for everyone to see. It was a private instructor brought in by Girl Scouts, not AHA or Red Cross. He told us two things. One, try not to put the pads over the pm. It's best to put it off to the side of the pm, and two, don't sweat it. If you are using an AED on someone, their heart has stopped so they are basically DEAD. Do what you need to do quickly. It's ideal to put it to the side of the device, but it's not dangerous to put it over. Fast treatment is more important than stressing over where to put the pads.

That reminds me, time to renew.

I agree with all of you

by Grateful Heart - 2014-04-06 10:04:13

Tracey, I'm curious. Did the instructor from the Girl Scouts know in advance that you had a pacemaker?

I'm just wondering if that was why they covered it? If not, good for them!

Grateful Heart

Defibrillator

by Bostonstrong - 2014-04-06 10:04:27

This was one of my preop questions recently. Sweetly asked the gas man if he knew where to put the pads if they were needed. He said there's only so many places they can go but he would avoid putting them directly over the device. Right answer. No one in the recovery room knew how to run an EKG though so it was sort of a moot question.

AEDs

by ebfox - 2014-04-07 09:04:58

As a volunteer ski patroller, we review AED use each year at our annual refresher. Regarding using the AED on someone with an implanted device, you shouldn't put a pad directly over someone's PM or CRT/D, otherwise, there's no process change. Keep in mind that the AED will analyze rhythm and will only shock if the patient is in V-tach or V-fib. Otherwise it will not shock you (and it doesn't have a button that allows a manual shock.)

If you had a CRT/D that was malfunctioning and you were in V-tach, the AED might fry your device but so what, it also saved your life.

If you or a loved ever have a heart incident, hopefully an AED is close by. It is your best chance-

E. B.

Grateful Heart

by Tracey_E - 2014-04-07 10:04:35

He wasn't part of GS, he was brought in to do the class for us. I'd have to dig out my card to see where he was from but definitely not AHA or Red Cross. And no, he had no idea one of his students had one until I said something. It was a standard part of the class.

Thanks Tracey

by Grateful Heart - 2014-04-07 11:04:50

No, don't pull out the card, it's ok. I think it's great they not only addressed pacemakers but passed one around.

That should really be standard in all CPR classes.

Six Pack Charlie.....now that's something else to think about. :-/

Grateful Heart

A couple of reasons...

by Grateful Heart - 2014-04-09 05:04:33

for my original post.

1). The importance of a CPR class.

2). The Nurse's response: "No. They feel if you have a pacemaker or ICD you should know all about it".

I very nicely explained there is a lot to learn and people with a pacemaker/ ICD do not know all about it and some do not know anything about it.

I just thought it was a poor response from someone in the medical field who teaches CPR and is affiliated with the AHA. Kinda felt like we got pushed aside. JMO

As far as using an AED, of course, use it on me if need be. I would use it on someone in a heart beat (no pun intended) and I agree, it talks you through each step if you listen to it and follow the pictures. I think you wouldn't even have to know how to read to use one, it is that self-explanatory.

Still concerned about Six Pack Charlie though. :-)

Grateful Heart

Totally Agree

by ebfox - 2014-04-09 09:04:11

Dizzy is on target- pacemaker or not, if you collapse without a pulse, an AED is your best shot at survival (hopefully within 6 minutes of loss of pulse). One of my paramedic friends commented that that prior to AED deployment, he had performed CPR 50+ times and he had saved 2 patients. With the AED, he had shocked 20 patients and saved 12. First responders call it Advanced Life Support, it used to be that you had to be in a hospital to be de-fibbed. The sooner you reboot the heart, the better the patient is going to be.

I have told my wife that if I ever passed out, when the EMTs come in,tell them to shock me-

These things save lives.

You know you're wired when...

Your kids call you Cyborg.

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