All Dogs should be shot !!!

I thought that would get your attention, especially all you dog-owners !

As a runner , I like to get out every few days and take the PM for a spin, test its Rate Responsiveness and enjoy the fresh air .
So I was happily doing my usual 3 miles through the local woods this morning when an old woman and a DOG appeared !

" It won't hurt you " she said as the love-of-her life came bounding towards me and started growling and jumping up and pawing me. It was fortunately a smallish dog so couldn't reach pacemaker level but it DID hurt me. In fact it sunk its teeth into my right knee .

To cut a long story short, I have just returned from the local hospital where I have had 5 stitches !!

So I genuinely need advice from you dog-owners . When a dog bounds towards me while I am running, should I :-

i) Try to run faster than the dog
ii) Stop, and remain stationary, while it devours my leg
iii) Try to stroke it and get my hand savaged
iv) Hit it on the side of the head with the nearest brick until it either falls unconscious or runs away

I must say I strongly favour option (iv) as this is the second time I have been bitten while running.

I hate dogs, they scare me. Dog-owners can be very annoying as they yell out at me :-

- "He's only a puppy"
- " He is only playing "
- " He won't hurt you "

Perhaps from now on the local dog walkers will be yelling out :-

"Why are you carrying that brick ? "

Any runners out there had the same problems ????

Ian

27 Comments

it's not the dogs fault...

by highdesert - 2014-10-24 01:10:34

it's the owner. You more than likely scared the dog as you came up to them running and it was protecting it's owner.The dog should have been on a leash.

Sorry !!

by IAN MC - 2014-10-24 01:10:43


All dog-owners should be shot !

ian

Highdesert is spot on.........

by Tattoo Man - 2014-10-24 02:10:23


.............slug the owner over the head with a brick....

IAN..my old Pal...being chased by a dog just has to be the best incentive for getting a bit of speed training in !!

As the Sargeant in Hill Street Blues would say...." Lets be careful out there"....

TM-UK Chapter

Sorry about what happened

by Theknotguy - 2014-10-24 04:10:27

Sorry about what happened. I use the dogs to get me out to exercise. If I see a runner I go over to the side of the path and hold the dogs. No one gets hurt that way.

They are black dogs so people are more frightened. I try not to intensify the situation.

Stop!

by Lurch - 2014-10-24 04:10:49

If being approached by a dog, stop. Don't stare the dog in the eyes (that is a challenge to a dog). Turn your body slightly to one side, about a 45°. This is less "threatening" to the dog and provides you with a defensive stance if the dog lunges at you.

Above all else, remain calm. Dogs can read your body language and "energy" levels. If you remain calm, non-threatening, and not scared, most dogs will do the same.

If the dog stills attacks, fend him off with your elbow.... then hit the owner in the head with your brick!

Good luck and I totally agree high dessert, it is the owner's fault for not controlling their dog!

dogs and running

by wjs1954 - 2014-10-24 04:10:51

I run and i have two dogs.

True story:
1992 took a vacation to Georgia two reason, to visit a friend and get married. Went for a run the day i (We) planned to get married, got bite by a dog in the park right leg. Held the wedding up for hours (i needed medical treatment) still got married that day. It was not the dogs fault it was the one on the other end of the leash that could no control it. Dog was quarantined for 2 weeks, no record of shots (dog not me), person had no money no insurance oh well. I get bite and pay the medical bills. Like i said many years ago, anyone i still love dog's as for the x wife. Oh well, I should have missed that wedding it ended up costing a lot more than the dog bite. Maybe the dog was trying to tell me something.

Ian: You are lucky that...

by donr - 2014-10-24 06:10:16

...you live in the UK. Last I knew RABIES did not exist there. Mainly because of your draconian quarantine measures for mammals that carry the disease. Have any animals infiltrated England via the Chunnel yet?

I agree w/ the advice that says hit the owner w/ a brick. All dogs when out in public should be on leash. We own three Shih Tzus that are large enough only to get your shoe laces - but given the appropriate provocation, would/could bite a person. ALL dogs are a biting threat, no matter how small & inoffensive they are.

Unfortunately, running toward a dog's owner is considered an aggressive act & a threat to its master by the dog & attack is hard-wired into their thinking - does NOT matter how well trained the dog is. The advice about stopping & freezing is good - but sometimes it is too late - you are already w/i the range that has over-ridden the dog's rational thinking.

As far as I know, there is only ONE defense in this situation, & it is a last ditch defense & you will get hurt. BUT, it will minimize the damage & immediately put the dog under your complete control.

It works - I had to use it on a 60 lb German Shepherd we owned may yrs ago. She bit down on something sharp & it got jammed into her upper gum line & she went berserk - absolutely barking mad - literally. I ran to her, dodged her snapping mouth full of rather sharp teeth & somehow managed to grab the front & hind leg on the same side & rolled her up onto her back. Absolutely helpless & calmed down. I had control. Wife came over & held legs while I found what was in mouth & pulled it out.

Donr




They should be on leads

by ma_ku - 2014-10-25 06:10:41

No dog should be unleashed in a public place imo. I own a dog and am also a runner. I have been in some very scary situations while running due to out of control dogs. Leash 'em, or keep 'em in your garden.

Hope you recover soon.

Mark

Take care Ian

by shal - 2014-10-25 06:10:55

Sorry to hear of your predicament Ian. Take care of yourself....bet you did not need this ...maybe u should carry something u can use defensively,....tho hopefully never again.

Terll me that cats don't bite .....

by donr - 2014-10-25 07:10:32

...& I'll tell you where to go in the "L" section of the dictionary to find out what you are doing.

Cats are worse than dogs when it comes to biting - under some circumstances. There is no such thing as a reaction bite where they get surprised & swing their heads around & go to bite but just close their mouth to the point that they make tooth contact w/ the person. Our Shi Tzus have done that many times while being bathed or combed out & the comb caught a knot & it hurt. Have the same thing happen w/ a cat & they swing their head around & sink teeth into the offending hand (or whatever) I'd rather go through the experience w/ our 60 lb Shepherd than our daughter's 5 lb cat. I had the cat bite me once when I was trying to extract her from some sort of trouble atop a fridge. I was lifting her down quite successfully & she was relaxed when a piece of glass fell off the top of the fridge, hit the floor, shattered & surprised the daylights out of both of us. She instantly became 5 lbs of irrational, snarling, biting fury & caught me on the left hand. breaking skin enough that I bled profusely.

less than 8 hrs later when daughter came home from her ER shift she looked at it & prescribed an appropriate antibiotic for the infection I already had raging locally at the wound. Seems that there is a bacteria growing in cat's mouths that the human body just cannot handle.

Therefore, Ian, if you encounter a little old lady in tennis shoes (Plimsols?) walking a small jaguar on a leash, turn & run as fast as you can - the infection is worse than the bite!

Don

Update

by IAN MC - 2014-10-25 11:10:23

After a rather sleepless night because of my stitched knee I am, today, feeling even more antagonistic towards dogs than I was yesterday !!

Thank you all for your responses , I must say I find it difficult to accept comments like "It's not the dog's fault "

It is interesting that the consensus view seems to be that I should have hit the old lady with a brick ( only in the Pacemaker Club will you find such compassion ! )

But, in her defence I would like to stress that in all my years of running I have never been bitten by a dog-owner, only by dogs.

I think Don was spot on when he said that " All dogs are a biting threat " and that means ALL DOGS not just some dogs !!

So all you dog-owners , as you lovingly stroke your pet tonight do remember that in the right circumstances it might bite you, it might bite a runner, worse still it might bite a child. Why not get a cat instead ?

Ian

US leash laws

by donr - 2014-10-26 02:10:17

Only apply outside the owner's home or FENCED yard.

As for the Akita - they are large, aggressive dogs & known to be undependable. That's why GH told her son to stay away from that dog. Huskies & Malamutes fall into that same category.

The absolute worst thing you can do to a dog is to chain or restrain it. They then become extremely defensive & aggressive w/i the radius of their chain. Matters not what kind of dog it is. Go anywhere near them & they go berserk.

As I said, we own three dustmop Shih Tzu's - they absolutely love all people, especially children - but we'd no more let them near strangers w/o control over them than fly. They have complete run of the house & the fenced yard (Garden), so they have never become sensitized to being constrained. We have a neighbor who has one that is constrained - it is a vicious little beast that will take a hunk out of your shin bone, if given the chance.

Yes, we have a lot of statistics on dog bite - but there are 350 Million of us & that equates to a lot of dogs to accompany us.

What the stats don't show is how many of those encounters occur inside someone's house or yard, where a leash is not required.

If the stats are looked at on the basis of number per million, the 32 deaths would be about 1 per 10 million - about .1 per million.

Penicillin allergy reactions cause about 400 deaths per year in the US - or a bit over 1 per million - TEN times the rate of death from dog bites.

You are absolutely correct about leash laws not being well followed. Our county (Shire) has about 25,000 residents in an area of about 214 square miles. There is one town in the county - Dawsonville w/ about 700 people living in 2 square miles. Our population density is considerably less than Hong Kong (For instance). The square mile we live in has about 25 people living on it. There are probably 5 dogs that roam free and actually belong to someone. No one cares because we only see them when we drive past their owner's houses. Then there are the feral dogs that roam the woods - they are dangerous & are fair game for hunters during the seasons. But I just read the county's leash law - very strict, but in rural areas, very un-enforced.

Enter the town, however & the situation changes dramatically.

Everywhere , however, rabies vaccination is required & owners are quite good at obeying that law. Nationwide dogs account for less than 100 of the reported rabies cases per year. Those despicable CATS, however, account for over 300 cases per year.

Considering the number of domestic animals that can act as vectors for the disease, we are doing reasonably well - out of 350 Million people, we average 2-3 deaths per year, with over 40,000 post exposure vaccinations administered per year. So at least people are aware of the threat to public health.

USUALLY - those 2-3 deaths are credited to BATS. People just do not fully appreciate the danger of Rabies in BATS. The rules of engagement in the US are as follows: 1) ANY physical contact, no matter how small, is a basis for vaccination. 2) Anyone sleeping in a room that discovers, when awakened, a bat, live or dead, in said room gets treated - whether there is evidence of physical contract or not. There have been two cases that I can recall where a child was awakened by parents and a dead bat was found in the room. There was no evidence of contact by the bat. Immunization was not given and Rabies developed in the child, followed by death.

Cheers to all!

Donr

Thanks Don

by IAN MC - 2014-10-26 03:10:02

As always an interesting response !

The main trouble with statistics , where health is concerned, is that if you are one of those 2 million children treated in ER for dog-bites then the statistics don't matter a damn. Two million sounds a helluva lot of injured children to me ; if you are one of them or the parent of one of them then the statistics aren't at all re-assuring while you are being given jabs and being sutured

if you are one of the 18 children who were killed by dog-bites you would be even less interested in the statistics.

I suspect that Grateful Heart's 13 yr old son was not thinking about statistics as a dog was ripping his flesh apart !

There is a simple solution , I won't spell it out again; I think you all have got the message now.

Ian

IAN MC.........

by Tattoo Man - 2014-10-26 06:10:03


............you have received some very useful,..compassionate and practical advice here...and I applaud all those who have taken the trouble to write to you...

However...I think that you had already answered your question with your opening comment..." All dogs should be shot " !!!......

Next time that you are in the States I advise that you visit a reputable running shop and ask to look at the extensive range of runner-friendly shoulder holsters....some have little pockets to keep your I-pad and Garmin safely stowed away...

Then..nip along about three doors away and pop into the branch of Wallmart...now, there you can pick up some Energy Gels and a bottle of electrolyte drink....

Oh...and while you are there stick a Glock 3.75 Blackhawk into your basket...for fifty bucks they cost less than your trainers and are so light that you have the benefiet of a small hand-cannon that will not shave seconds off your PB..

AS ever, IAN...a pleasure to be of assistance.

TM-UK

Yep, I have the message...

by donr - 2014-10-26 07:10:37

...as Ian suggested, take Penicillin off the market.

Donr

Thewre are TWO reasons...

by donr - 2014-10-26 09:10:17

...for leash laws. Unless the situation has changed in the UK & the island of Hawaii, they only need the leash law for one of them.

1) Prevention of the spread of RABIES. Rabies is ONLY spread through the bite of an infected animal or contact w/ brain matter of an infected animal. (There is viable research that indicates it may be transmitted through the air under very special circumstances. Remaining in a cave FULL of bats that are infected was shown to be a transmission situation back in 1961 in New Mexico by a researcher at a university.) If our dogs & cats are effectively controlled, such that they do not come in contact w/ the Rabies reservoir among wildlife, they cannot bring the disease into the human community. Last I knew, the UK & Hawaii were rabies free.

As a three time loser in the rabies exposure arena, I have strong feelings about the control of that disease. BTW: my exposures were to brain matter of a potentially infected coyote & two exposures by physical contact w/ bats in the wild. When our daughter's cat bit me, it had been innoculated.

2) Prevention of animal bites on other humans. We need that everywhere that dogs & humans inhabit the same space & that is nearly every place that humans live. Therefore, it is incumbent upon ALL dog owners to keep their dogs on leash when out in public.

Bottom line: IF you own a mammal as a pet, get it vaccinated against Rabies & keep the little bugger on a leash.

Donr

Thank You everyone

by IAN MC - 2014-10-26 09:10:45

Whenever I run in future I will carry ;-

- 2 bricks ( one to hit the dog and one to hit the old lady )
- Mace Spray
- Bear Spray
- A stun zapper
- A retractable police baton and
- A Glock 3.75 Blackhawk

I had been gradually improving my times for my 3 mile circuit , I wonder if carrying that lot will slow me down at all ?

Tattoo Man : Your advice to visit the US worries me as dogs probably carry guns over there

Sparrow : Yes we are fortunately rabies-free in the UK but since I have been bitten I have started frothing at the mouth and growling at people. Is this anything to worry about ?

sunshinewishes and others sending good wishes, I do appreciate it, thank you

Interestingly , you and Don mention leash laws. Where I run is a popular area for dog walkers ( and runners ) as it is pleasant woodland with lots of footpaths. There has been a recent proposal that "leash laws" be introduced but it is being strongly opposed by the Kennel Club of Great Britain. This is some sort of club for dog-owners.They are arguing that their sweet little biting-machines need to run free so that they can get enough exercise. The debate is ongoing. I have just sent a photograph of my knee to the involved parties .

donr : Out of curiosity I looked at the statistics for dog-related injuries and most of the data relates to the US. It really does seem that your leash laws are not being foliowed

- 32 dog-bites resulted in death in the US last year, 18 of them were children

- Over 3 million dog-bites last year resulted in ER visits , around 2 million of them were children

- The average cost of a dog bite related visit to ER is $18,000

It occurred to me that if a Pharm company discovered a drug with those harmful effects it would never be given a licence !

Ian

Leash Laws

by Grateful Heart - 2014-10-26 11:10:21


Leash laws do not always come into play.

When my Son was 13 years old, he went down the road to a friends house to play a little basketball. This was something fairly new because all the kids on the road always played in our yard. (I wanted it that way).

The neighbors had an akita. We told our Son repeatedly to stay away from that dog. He insisted the dog knew him and liked him.

After a little One on One, he went over to the dog with his friend to pet it. The dog was on a leash in it's own yard. The dog mauled my Son's arm and didn't let go until his friend (the owner) hit the dog a few times. They came running home with blood all over him, flesh hanging out. Thank God my Husband was home that day. He was working in the backyard and when I ran to the back door and screamed for him, he didn't need to ask why, he just came running. He said he could hear it in my voice.

78 stitches later, inside and out, we brought him back home from the ER. He thought he was going to be punished for not listening. I told him he was punished enough.

Lesson learned....the hard way.

Grateful Heart

If all dogs had been shot..

by IAN MC - 2014-10-26 11:10:55

..that would never have happened to your son !

Ian

Don ????????

by IAN MC - 2014-10-27 04:10:00

Your concern about what make of dog bit GH's son is rather strange and irrelevant . If you get run over by a car; does it matter if it was a Ford or a Chrysler ? It was a dog and it bit a child . it doesn't matter if it was an Akita or a Pit Bull . I really don't care what breed of dog bit me !!

Interestingly a Dangerous Dogs Act was passed in the UK in 1991 and it is illegal here to own a Pit Bull and 3 other types of dog because of their proven desire to bite people.

Despite the possibility of life imprisonment some very very stupid people still own pit bulls illegally and many of these dogs are smuggled in from Ireland . Not only are they stupid but a 2009 study in the Journal of Forensic Science found that owners of vicious dogs ,particularly Pit Bulls , had " significantly more criminal behaviour than other dog owners and many had psychopathic tendencies " ( I will study Grateful Heart's posts with great interest in future ! )

Bizarrely, Akitas are still legal here and one actually won an award in the UK annual dog show, Crufts, last year for " obedience " . I was dismayed but not really surprised to read that :-

"The dog was posing with its proud owners for photographs and it suddenly lunged at a nearby woman, sinking its teeth into her knee and hand. She needed surgery on her knee and has been left with permanent nerve damage to her hand . The owner then proceeded to tell everyone what a lovely dog it was !!! "

I know that all you dog-owners look at your dogs and admire those soulful eyes, the wet noses and the smooth coats. All I see when I look at ANY dog is those TEETH which could rip the flesh off my knee or off a baby's face.

I know we have had some fun with the " tongue in cheek " stuff but if one single dog- owner is persuaded to NEVER EVER let their dog off the leash in ANY public place after reading this lot then it has all been worthwhile.

Ian

How many dogs are there in the world ?

by IAN MC - 2014-10-27 04:10:39

I've just Googled it, and there are an estimated 400 million.

I think most of them are in the woods where I run !

But that apart, Sparrow I'm really delighted that the vicious German Shepherd is now dead. One down only 399,999,999 to go; I feel that my campaign is beginning to take off !

Don, your homework for this evening is to write one thousand words on " The relative contributions made to society of Pit Bull Terriers v Penicillin " . Work on the assumption that one of them has to go .

Grateful Heart : I bet your son didn't tell the dog that it was a Pit Bull ! I loved your description of the beast as being " friendly and loving" I think pretty well every owner of every dog which has attacked people would say the same. But Eva Braun lived with Adolph Hitler and she thought he was OK too !

Cheers

Ian ( still in pain but slowly recovering )

Well....It is relevant

by Grateful Heart - 2014-10-27 05:10:07


Ian: Apparently you misread what I wrote (it happens) but it changed my whole story.

Not trying to change your mind about dogs, I understand. It took my son a long time to get over the fear and he did it with a Pit Bull of all breeds. But like I said, she didn't know she was a Pit Bull.

Certainly, they are not all friendly and that breed in particular are abused and trained for horrible dog fights, etc.

By the way, no more animals in my house, not even a goldfish. It's heart breaking for everyone when they go too soon.

Feel free to study my posts....but be forewarned....you're gonna be bored.

Hope you feel better soon.

Grateful Heart

Ian: You've changed your...

by donr - 2014-10-27 10:10:56

...premise significantly. It started out as: "It occurred to me that if a Pharm company discovered a drug with those harmful effects it would never be given a licence !"

Now it is "The relative contributions made to society of Pit Bull Terriers v Penicillin. "

A minor error in your reading - it was an Akita that bit GH's Son, not the Pit Bull & it belonged to a friend's family. The bite occurred when said Son was 13 - the dog just died this past July after being with her family for only 4 yrs. The Son is much older than 17.

Not the same, old chap! Pit Bulls never showed up in our several exchanges in the first 27 comments in this thread. Even the breed of the beast who ravaged your knee has never been mentioned. Grateful heart first entered the Pit Bull into this discussion. Her point was & is that "all dogs are not the same; nurture vs nature can make a difference." (I think I Interpreted you correctly, GH - pls correct me if I'm wrong.) I already stated that when I described the neighbor's Shih Tzu that was kept restrained by a chain all its life.

Dogs, like people, can only be generally described as to temperament or propensity toward violence. Because of the likes of Crippen, Bundy, Manson, Jack, Chikatilo, Mengele, should all people be shot? Or only those of certain genetic stock?

I think we have wandered astray of our original post, which discussed the moral & ethical aspects of "bricking" little old ladies accompanied by canines of questionable temperament - much of it being tongue in cheek.

Donr

Here's the other side of the coin

by Grateful Heart - 2014-10-27 12:10:30


We had a Pit Bull. Not my first choice but then, we didn't choose her. She was about 8 months old and she was supposed to stay with us for 6 months...that was the agreement. 4 years later she was still with us.

The point is she was friendly and loving. Nobody told her she was a Pit Bull. At 65 lbs. after 4 years, nobody told her she wasn't a lap dog.

Unfortunately, she needed emergency surgery in July and didn't survive...by then she had sepsis. She was misdiagnosed a week earlier when we brought her to the Vet.

I do think how dogs are treated can help form their temperament. Maybe not always but it seemed to be in her case. She was part of the family and is sorely missed.

Grateful Heart

Akitas

by TickTock-UK - 2014-11-05 06:11:42


Hi Ian,

Sorry to hear about your problem with the dog...Is the dog OK?

No seriously you mentioned the Akitas Just read this in the Daily Mail. It took a chunk out of her mouth, not nice pictures here...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2821725/Pregnant-mother-left-face-hanging-attacked-Akita-dog-tried-rip-chunks-flesh-mouth.html

Hope you are on the mend, just to add if it had been my 12 year old West Highland Terrier you would not have had any stitches, as she would have soaked you by licking...she just loves children..

regards Len

Ian

by Casper - 2014-11-09 12:11:19

Hi Ian,

I just signed in, I haven't been on the website for awhile.

So sorry to hear about your dog incident. The same thing happened to be, it didn't require stitches, but some heavy dosing of antibiotics. It was one of those yippity yappity little dogs, his own said, he won't hurt you, as he was lunging for my ankles.



From now on, I carry a can of mace, and I'm not afraid to use it.

I hope you're feeling better.

Caper

Dogs and pacemakers

by Pallas27 - 2015-05-13 06:05:15

I have had dogs for over twenty years and several breeds, from Great Dane to my now 22 lb Basenji.
We recently moved down to Florida and our new friend and neighbor had a pacemaker put in after several black outs.
My dog Bear is the the favorite in the neighborhood and was very calm and friendly around our friend until recently.

She now has a pacemaker that sends a signal to a monitor.

My dog recently charged my friend with his hair raised on his back. Both of us were taken unawares. There was no bite but he did scare my friend. This is most uncharacteristic of Bear and my friend said the same thing. On thinking about it I realized it is only since she has the pacemaker. Dogs are very sensative to electrical impulses and sounds we can't hear.
My feeling is that my dog is now picking up something that he didn't before and is reacting to it. My advice is to be aware of this for people with pacemakers. I hope this helps. There are bad owners and some bad dogs, but animals react, they don't plot! What you are seeing is a reaction to something they don't understand.

You know you're wired when...

You fondly named your implanted buddy.

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