BACH Rescue Remedy???

Good afternoon,

Does anyone have any experience with Bach Flower Remedies...specifically "Rescue Remedy"...for anxiety???

Everyone keeps suggesting that I try it to relieve PTSD symptoms...even two of my PTSD psychologists I've seen in the past 4 months. I have yet to discuss it with my EP; I have however, discussed the possible contraindications with my current medications with a pharmacist...who didn't want to commit and stayed neutral.

My meds:
Amiodarone...Lorsartan...Carvedilol...and Ativan.

I don't have any plans to use it and remain skeptical, unless my EP gives me the green light...in the meantime I'll continue to do my research.

Any feedback will certainly be appreciated.

Thanks alot!

Ron

15 Comments

rescue remedy

by Tracey_E - 2013-07-21 10:07:11

I've used it for years on my dogs, never heard of humans using it. My vet said it was harmless and it's used extensively by dog rescue groups with amazing results.

I doubt you'll get an opinion from the pharmacist or dr, they tend to not recommend anything that isn't regulated.

Ian

by Tracey_E - 2013-07-22 01:07:52

I don't know about your research but I was under the assumption/belief you can't patent an herb. I know when I used to get bad allergies, I got more relief from the old man at the Chinese herb store than the antihistimines my dr prescribed. The allergies stopped altogether when I found a good chiropractor. And I don't mean a little sniffle here and there when the flowers bloom, we're talking 10 years of chronic sinusitis and I hadn't been able to smell in years. My hormone imbalance and migraines went away and I got off of all the prescrip meds I had been on. Two of my drs told me it was a coincidence, that there's no way the herbs or chiropractic did anything. I stand my by comment that it's a shame traditional dr's brush off alternative treatments. If I'd listened to my gp (who I respect a lot overall), I would still be in chronic pain management, managing migraines and allergies, taking a fistful of meds every day. I followed their advice, went to their specialists, tried their prescriptions. When I was still miserable, I went outside the box. My own experience is some of it works.

Thanks to All

by Ronniecolorado - 2013-07-22 02:07:56

I'm really enjoying everyone's feedback and learning alot.

Thanks!

Ron

Tracey

by IAN MC - 2013-07-22 02:07:58

You're right you can't patent an individual herb as such but there are ways round this :-

- The pharmaceutical industry would ideally identify the active ingredient of the herb ( if there is one ) synthesise that, and patent it if it had medicinal value. All herbs contain a mixture of ingredients and one or some of them may / or may not have pharmacological value

Many drugs are of botanical origin ... aspirin, morphine, tamoxifen to name just 3 and the pharmaceutical
industry spends a fortune trying to work out if there is anything in herbs which will make them even richer.

- or you could mix the herb into a tablet / capsule / liquid medicine with various other ingredients of dubious value and possibly patent the mixture but you would need clinical trials to prove it's efficacy before you could market it ... and that is the big difference between drugs and herbal remedies ... but heh, Tracey, lots of people believe in God and there's no evidence for that either !

Glad you got such relief from the old man in the Chinese store ( sounds vaguely rude to me ! )

Ian x

Hi Ronnie

by IAN MC - 2013-07-22 05:07:23

The thought of swallowing a mixture of extracts from various flowers would give me anxiety ! !

Unlike prescription drugs these things have not undergone any clinical trials or scientific testing and you may as well stew up the contents of your lawnmower and take 3 tablespoonfuls a day.

Who knows what side-effects Dr Bach's Profit-Making-Potion would give you ?...

... you could end up barking and urinating against every tree that you come across ( like Tracey's dogs )...anything is possible !

Cheers

Ian

Rescue Remedy

by brucenj - 2013-07-22 05:07:58

Hi Ronnie:

I have used 'Rescue Remedy' in the past (before getting my PM ). No outstanding,or very definite, results were received, but just a small lessening of stress was experienced. (Placebo effect ??).

I believe the recommended dosage is 4 drops of the extract mixed with some water, or under the tongue. It's made with alcohol.

If your EP gives you the go-ahead, it might be worth a try, especially since 2 PTSD psychologists recommended it to you. Good Luck,

Bruce

Are you serious???

by Hope - 2013-07-22 06:07:34

Hi! Writing this in a wee morning hour, as my arthritis has made the decision I do not need sleep, wrong. If I thought it would help, I would gladly eat some flowers, but I am smart enough to not eat dog food, so I will pass on the animal potion also. I am still trying to convince my husband a move to the beach wooald cure everything. Seriously, Ian expressed the danger with some humor. You listed several medications you take on a regular basis. I hope you choose to not add any magic potions. Many times the only magic is the money that appears in the pockets of those who prey on patients and lonely hearts. Hopeful Heart

oops!

by Hope - 2013-07-22 06:07:58

Please excuse my unique spelling of would. I am sorry.

BTDT w/ anxiety Meds

by donr - 2013-07-22 09:07:25

Ronnie: Title say it all. Except that I've never been offered drug meds! I would not temp fate w/ them, however - w/ your existing combo (witch's brew) of meds being simmered in your gut I would not really add even a prescribed people med!

The Ativan is the one that concerns me - that stuff can be very addictive & has some miserable side effects in the form of "Hangover " effects that out live the drug, itself. It really is only a good drug for short term effect & assistance.

I know the mantra - "If taken under the supervision & management of a physician, it's safe." Yabut - for how long? PTSD is not a short term malady - it can go on for years, so what do they expect you to do after Ativan has outlived its usefulness?

What was the eventual outcome of the EMDR sessions you talked about back in May? You had high hopes after the first session? Did it not continue to help?

Sounds like your PTSD is refractory (Resistant to relief.)

How about an update?

Don

more about Bach

by Tracey_E - 2013-07-22 10:07:45

I'm not advocating using it, but I'll point out that it was developed for humans, it's just that my only experience with it is with rescue dogs and vets recommend it. Bach has an excellent reputation for quality, but it's still an unregulated industry.

I think it's a shame medical drs brush off alternative medicines and treatments, modern pharmaceuticals are not the only answer.

Even more about Alternative Medicines

by IAN MC - 2013-07-22 12:07:12

Tracey / Sparrow I used to work in research in the pharmaceutical industry and we used to spend ( waste ) lots of time looking at so called alternative treatments.

We used to look at every crackpot herbal remedy on the market to see if they had any therapeutic value. I promise you if there was something out there, the pharmaceutical industry would grab it , patent it and make lots of money out of it before you could even say " Dr Bach '" ( Or is it Dr Bark ? )

I see Dr Bach claims that its products are " homeopathic" in some way . In the UK , homeopathic medicine used to receive government financial backing, partly because that well known crackpot, Prince Charles, is a great advocate of it's value.

After serious studies no benefits whatsoever from homeopathic medicine were found and the government has removed all financial support for it. This is a recent statement released by the UK Government :-

"A 2010 House of Commons Science and Technology Committee report on homeopathy said that homeopathic remedies perform no better than placebos, and that the principles on which homeopathy is based are 'scientifically implausible'. This is also the view of the Chief Medical Officer, Professor Dame Sally Davies."

I think it's a shame that people on here make statements like " it's a shame medical drs brush off alternative medicines etc ... " . Come on. get real, would you let someone install a PM if there were absolutely no evidence that it doesn't do any good.

Stick to evidence-based medicine !

Cheers

Ian

Oops

by IAN MC - 2013-07-22 12:07:38


"doesn't " in the last line should have read "does " .I've been chewing too many petals from my flower bed and they've affected my brain !

Ian

rescue remedy

by manaman - 2013-07-24 11:07:53

Owned health food store for 12 years! Sold MANY bottles of Bach Rescue remedy. I have cross referenced many,many prescriptions for interactions/reactions with this remedy and have NEVER found even ONE that there was an issue with. I have had a PM for nearly 20 years and have taken this remedy many,many times myself with great results (only issues with this is that it has a alcohol base so I would advise alcoholics to stay away from it. If you are having extreme anxiety I would certainly look at a GOOD "B" complex vitamin for certain. Also why the anxiety? Would be worth your time/effort to see if you may have severe adrenal fatigue. Natures Sunshine makes a couple of GOOD products that help with anxiety and or adrenal fatigue (NUTRI-CALM and ADRENAL SUPPORT)
Herbs and herbal formulars have a bad name because they are not FDA regulated but for all you people that are down on using them do your home work and tell us how many herbal usage related deaths are there in the WORLD yearly and then compare that to the same
stats on PRESCRIPTION DRUGS!
I contend that if one eats right and exercise then there is no need for ANY supplementation, but if you do supplement you should research the product/substance and use in moderation if you use anything.

Bach

by Lala - 2013-07-25 01:07:51

I've used Rescue Remedy myself and with my dogs who had separation anxiety. I used to have panic attacks and took xanax...RR was good for me when I couldn't take a full xanax because I needed to drive or function completely for example. It's a subtle help but none the less it works. I am now off of xanax and use RR if i feel anxious.

Hi Manaman

by IAN MC - 2013-07-25 05:07:45

Try reading this for starters ;-

..................................................................

"Diet Supplements and Safety: Some Disquieting D

By DAN HURLEY
Published: January 16, 2007
Correction Appended

In October 1993, during a Senate hearing on a bill to regulate herbs, vitamins and other dietary supplements on the presumption that they were safe, Senator Orrin G. Hatch, Republican of Utah, spoke up in their defense. Herbal remedies “have been on the market for centuries,” he said, adding: “In fact, most of these have been on the market for 4,000 years, and the real issue is risk. And there is not much risk in any of these products.”

That benign view was written into the bill when it was passed by both houses the following year. While the law, the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994, forbade manufacturers to claim that their products “treat, cure or prevent” any disease, it allowed them to make vaguer claims based on a standard that did not require them to do any testing. And it stated that “dietary supplements are safe within a broad range of intake, and safety problems with the supplements are relatively rare.”

But hiding in plain sight, then as now, a national database was steadily accumulating strong evidence that some supplements carry risks of injury and death, and that children may be particularly vulnerable.

Since 1983, the American Association of Poison Control Centers has kept statistics on reports of poisonings for every type of substance, including dietary supplements. That first year, there were 14,006 reports related to the use of vitamins, minerals, essential oils — which are not classified as a dietary supplement but are widely sold in supplement stores for a variety of uses — and homeopathic remedies. Herbs were not categorized that year, because they were rarely used then.

By 2005, the number had grown ninefold: 125,595 incidents were reported related to vitamins, minerals, essential oils, herbs and other supplements. In all, over the 23-year span, the association — a national organization of state and local poison centers — has received more than 1.6 million reports of exposures to such products, including 251,799 that were serious enough to require hospitalization. From 1983 to 2004 there were 230 reported deaths from supplements, with the yearly numbers rising from 4 in 1994, the year the supplement bill passed, to a record 27 in 2005.

The number of deaths may be far higher. In April 2004, the Food and Drug Administration said it had received 260 reports of deaths associated with herbs and other nonvitamin, nonmineral supplements since 1989. But an unpublished study prepared in 2000 for the agency by Dr. Alexander M. Walker, then the chairman of epidemiology at the Harvard School of Public Health, concluded: “A best estimate is that less than 1 percent of serious adverse events caused by dietary supplements is reported to the F.D.A. The true proportion may well be smaller by an order of magnitude or more.”

The supplements with the most exposures in 2005, according to the poison control centers, were ordinary vitamins, accounting for nearly half of all the reports received that year, 62,446, including 1 death. Minerals were linked to about half as many total reports, 32,098, but that number included 13 deaths. Herbs and other specialty products accounted for still fewer total reports, 23,769, but 13 deaths. Essential oils were linked to 7,282 reports and no deaths.

Among herbs and other specialty products, melatonin and homeopathic products — prepared from minuscule amounts of substances as diverse as salt and snake venom — had the most reports of exposures in 2005. The poison centers received 2,001 reports of exposures to melatonin, marketed as a sleep aid, including 535 hospitalizations and 4 deaths. Homeopathic products, often marketed as being safe because the doses are very low, were linked to 7,049 exposures, including 564 hospitalizations and 2 deaths.

But most other types of herbs and specialty supplements also appear in the annual report. In 2005, the poison centers received 203 reports of exposures to St. John’s wort, including 79 hospitalizations and 1 death. Glucosamine, with or without chondroitin, was linked to 813 exposures, including 108 hospitalizations and 1 death. Echinacea was linked to 483 exposures, including 55 hospitalizations, 1 of them considered life-threatening. Saw palmetto was not listed on the report.

Injuries to children under 6 account for nearly three-quarters of all the reports of exposures to dietary supplements, according to the poison centers. In 2005, the most recent year for which figures are available, 48,604 children suffered exposures to vitamins alone, the ninth-largest category of substances associated with exposures in that age group.

Major medical groups and government agencies do not generally recommend vitamin or mineral supplements for children who are otherwise healthy. But an analysis of the National Maternal and Infant Health Survey, published in the journal Pediatrics in 1997, found that 54 percent of parents of preschool children gave them a vitamin or mineral supplement at least three days a week.

Advocates of the products correctly point out that the poison centers’ figures do not prove a causal link between a product and a reaction and that, in any case, far more people are injured and killed by drugs. Painkillers alone were associated with 283,253 exposures in 2005, according to the poison centers, more than twice as many as with supplements. But only 3.5 percent of those exposures occurred when people took the prescribed amount of painkiller; most were from overdoses, either accidental or intentional. The same was true of asthma drugs (3.6 percent of exposures were associated with the prescribed dose) and cough and cold drugs (3.1 percent).

While problems with vitamins, minerals and essential oils occurred at similarly low levels when people took the recommended amounts, exposures linked to the recommended levels of herbs, homeopathic products and other dietary supplements accounted for 10.3 percent of all exposures to those products reported to the poison centers — about three times the level seen for most drugs.

Drugs marketed in the United States go through a rigorous F.D.A. approval process to prove that they are effective for a particular indication, with the potential risks balanced against the benefits. While the approval process has come under attack in recent years as unduly favorable to drug companies, it remains among the toughest in the world.

There is no comparable requirement for supplements. Even so, hundreds of millions of tax dollars have been spent since the early 1990s on hundreds of studies to test the possible benefits of supplements. The National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, established by Congress in 1991 to “investigate and validate unconventional medical practices,” has a 2007 budget of more than $120 million.

Since April 2002, five large randomized trials financed by the center have found no significant benefit for St. John’s wort against major depression, echinacea against the common cold, saw palmetto for enlarged prostate, the combination of glucosamine and chondroitin for arthritis, or black cohosh and other herbs for the hot flashes associated with menopause.

A new source of data on exposures to dietary supplements will soon become available: in December, Congress passed a measure requiring the manufacturers of dietary supplements and over-the-counter drugs to inform the F.D.A. whenever consumers call them with reports of serious adverse events. The bill was signed by President Bush the day after Christmas. It is a welcome acknowledgment that “natural” does not always mean “safe.”


Dan Hurley is the author of the new book “Natural Causes: Death, Lies and Politics in America’s Vitamin and Herbal Supplement Industry” (Broadway Books), from which this essay is adapted.

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