Osun PA0010 Pace Alert

Hi,

Can anyone comment on the effectiveness of the Osun PA0010 Pace Alert device? I drive diesel electric locomotives and the main generators would give off large amounts of EMF. So far I've managed to stay clear of them, but I'm not sure how much leakage there might be especially into the driver's cab when I'm working.

I have a St Jude Medical pacemaker installed in Aug 2012 after a catheter ablation went wrong and gave me heart block.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

8 Comments

Leakage

by Pacman62 - 2014-01-26 02:01:11

Hi Cecil,

I hear what you say, but unfortunately I can't stay away from main generators forever especially when we have mechanical trouble. It's more about how close and personal I can get to them in order to effect repairs if needed.

I've been lucky so far that this has not been the case, but I'd like to find out as it often plays on my mind. I know one day out on the track I'll have no choice and I don't really want to find out then that I should have not come too close.

Anyway thanks for your reply.

GE DE Loco's

by donr - 2014-01-26 02:01:38

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Cecil!

Pac: Cecil is the local expert on this. He has direct experience wandering around in a mfg plant doing repair work on production machinery _ I mean a lot of stuff that had big magnets in it & control panels w/ 400+ volt supplies.

I'm a simple minded EE who has NOT done what he has, but will offer an opinion about your situation.

1) The drive motors are in the trucks directly connected to the wheels, so you will not get near them while they are running - not unless you can run equally fast (Pun intended).

2) If you have been working in the cab, you have already been exposed to the magnetic fields there, so you have answered that question by your own experience. No effect.

IIRC, DE loco's operate on DC, as opposed to AC, since DC motors are easier to control for speed. I think you also get greater starting torque from DC motors. Dunno what the voltage is from the generators, but I'm guessing 400 V?

3) I just read your BIo to see if it tld me what your diagnosis for the PM is. Heart block - so you do not have a Defib, just a PM. I assumed you lived in the US, so was writing about General Electric (GE) Locos. I'm sure the same principles apply to whatever brand Loco you have.

4) Have you been back in the section where the Diesels & Generators are? At all? The best thing is for you to walk slooooooowly toward that section some day while the loco is stopped & see what happens. If you are not 100% totlly dependent, the worst that can happen is for your PM to switch into its TEST mode, which will make you feel like crap. If that happens, turn around & return as fast as you can to where you felt nothing.

Then perform the same test while you are running at a slow speed. I assume that you do NOT drive a loco alone - yu have an assistant. It goes w/o saying that you don't do this while alone in a running loco.

5) Motors & generators are designed to pretty well keep all their magnetic flux confined to the inside of the devices . To lose flux is to lose efficiency. So, I do not forsee problems w/ being near the Diesels & attendant generators..

6) The Bus Bars are a different colored Kangaroo. They carry whopping currents for the drive motors. Get too close to one of those & you may have problems w/ Magnetic fields. Realize that magnetic fields drop off quite rapidly w/ distance from the conductor creating it, so that is your friend. I can give you only one data point as a point of reference. My PM passed w/i 6 inches of a conductor carrying 30 Amps at 240 Volts 60 Hz & it was switched into TEST mode. Any distance further & it had no ill effect. It's the current that affects a PM, not the voltage.

7) the real problem is how close you have to get to the generators while they are generating power. Again, you will have to determine on your own if they bother you & the only way to do that is to slowly approach them some day while they are generating power.

As I said earlier, generators are designed to keep all their flux inside them. I doubt that you will be opening them up & disrupting the magnetic circuits w/in the generators.

Hope I have helped you in your quest for information.

Donr

leakage

by manaman - 2014-01-26 02:01:59

Just my opinion here









Why spend the money on the devise? You have had the PM for over a year now and had to have had it checked at one time.
If there were no indications of issues noted then all is well!
If there were issues then most likely the PM would be at your low setting and you would be one uncomfortable perso ( most likely). If it were causing problems you should be in a near constant state of dizziness,weakness, nasua etc.
Just my opinion!
Donr should chime in on this anytime now!
Have a good day!
Cecil














leakage

by manaman - 2014-01-26 02:01:59

Just my opinion here









Why spend the money on the devise? You have had the PM for over a year now and had to have had it checked at one time.
If there were no indications of issues noted then all is well!
If there were issues then most likely the PM would be at your low setting and you would be one uncomfortable perso ( most likely). If it were causing problems you should be in a near constant state of dizziness,weakness, nasua etc.
Just my opinion!
Donr should chime in on this anytime now!
Have a good day!
Cecil














Leakage

by Pacman62 - 2014-01-27 03:01:12

Hi Donr,

Thanks for the reply. Most of the gear I work around is shielded though in the engine room of a locomotive it's a different kettle of fish, especially on the older locomotives built in the 50s.

The main generator of one particular model I work on will put out around 900 volts/2000 amps at transition, though this can spike as high as 2000 volts.

We have a policy of never being in the engine room with the throttle over notch 1.

I work on both EMD and GE locomotives though the GEs are very new with AC traction and are very heavily shielded against the release of excess EMF due to the strict laws here in Australia.

My fear(?) has all come about since the first time I returned to work and started a loco and felt rather strange until I moved away from the main generator. I have only once since that event in sept 2012 gone past another main generator and though nothing happened it still hasn't reduced my concerns.

I have spoken with one for our mechanical people and he said the same thing about the main gen being in a 1" thick metal casing to ensure leakage does not occur or is fatally reduced.

I guess a lot of this stems from the fact that I'm, after all this time, still very angry at the fact that I went for a catheter ablation can came out with a pacemaker. That wasn't the plan and I still don't seem to be able to deal with what happened.

Somehow I feel like I have a weakness now and this has caused me a lot of stress and anxiety. It's also caused me to see shadows where there probably aren't any, but I seem to have become more and more aware of this damn thing in my chest and how it's changed my life.

Regards Daryl

Anyway thanks for your advice.

Leakage

by Pacman62 - 2014-01-27 03:01:38

PS

Our mechanical guy did suggest getting a measuring device just to be sure especially in the older units as the shielding on cables and in electrical cabinets is not always in the best of repair due to the fact most are around 60 years old.

Same reason for my PM

by SaraTB - 2014-01-27 05:01:40

I can't contribute to the discussion about EMFs, but I wanted to say that there are a couple of us here who ended up with PMs as a result of damage during catheter ablations. I do truly understand how you feel: I was so angry at the time, but I have eventually managed to put it in its place. For me, and I think the others too, it's the shock of suddenly needing a PM, when you've had no time to prepare, and after expecting an entirely different outcome. I think my doctor was unduly optimistic when he gave me 1 in 1000 odds of needing a PM, before the procedure - I think it's more like 100.

However, remembering how awful I felt before the procedure, even with tons of medications, has helped: I take no medications now, and feel almost completely normal. I go days without thinking about the PM anymore. The more I educated myself about PMs, the more in control I felt.

I don't know if any of this helps you, but I wanted you to know you're not the only one, and that the anger can pass, while you're busy getting on with life.

Good luck, welcome to the Pacemaker Club, and don't be afraid to keep asking stuff!

Ah, what we learn ...

by donr - 2014-01-27 12:01:31

...when we stick our necks out.

Daryl, that was interesting. I guessed a lot correctly about DE locos & bombed a few times.

1) I assume that "Transition" is when you apply power to the traction motors at dead stop to get the train moving. I can see where that would eat a lot of current, w/ the motor's armatures held at stall. The heat losses must be hideous at that point.

2) Did not realize that AC motors were being used - shows my age as an EE. I witnessed the transition from steam to diesel as I grew up. The big DE locos came out when I was a boy back in the early 1940's. Like Australia, we have some very long stretches of rail line on transcontinental routes & the big DE's were well suited for that.

3) I think I guessed right that you don't go into the engine compartments while running at any load for maintenance/repair.

Notch 1 means nothing to me - roughly what is it's power being generated at that point? My guess is the first step above idle. Do the main generators provide electric power for the accessories & administrative type electrical needs?

At idle are the generators essentially turned off? I cannot see wasting large qtys of electrical power when it is not necessary.

4) The bus bars must be rather hefty bars of pure copper to handle those currents w/o overheating. Also as short as possible to cut down losses.

Your response to the PM post-op is NOT uncommon. Not normal, by any means, either.

You work in a job that truly pushes the envelope as to what we can do w/ a PM inside us. I've had that one incident where I got too close to a hot cable & it put my PM in test mode & scared the living crap out of me. Worst part, I was up on an 8 ft step ladder & almost fell off of it. Just barely made it to the ground. I can see how you would harbor some of the feelings you have for it.

Unless you change jobs, it's going to always be the elephant in the room for you, causing you to see shadows where there are no items to cast them.

Somewhere this AM I wrote a comment for a couple women called "Food for thought for pissed off people," or something like that. I asked three questions - 1) Would they feel that way if it had been a car accident that laid them up? 2) would they feel that way if a heart attack did it? 3) Would they feel that way if it had been pneumonia that did it?

My point, obtuse though it may be, is that getting a PM is somehow different psychologically than other traumas. We are NOT "Weaker" people because of it, but we are hampered in some ways. What those ways are we have to explore our environment to find out. Often we really aren't hampered quite as badly as we think.

Fortunately, you are limited by strong magnetic fields. but at least you know it & can explore around & find the limits of your envelope.

Good luck on your quest.

Don

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