How to Get Sleep after PM
- by jds66
- 2012-04-12 03:04:20
- Complications
- 2258 views
- 9 comments
I am back, two weeks now after the 3/29 surgery and I am having the most difficulty in two areas- 1.getting ANY sleep at all 2. Mental adjustment.
First of all, the mental angle of this is just way beyond what I thought it would be. I think I am battling a healthy dose of buyers remorse, since I haven't seen what I would term benefits right away.
My diagnosis is Sick Sinus Syndrome, and I was plodding along for many years with it. After complaining and feeling sort of more run down as time went by, I had two Holter monitors in Feb of this year. They showed an average rate of 47 and 48.
During the night, on both of them, the rate went as low as 32. I had a pause as long as about 3.5 seconds, which they say is about right on the edge of where they start to worry.
When I had all the same type of testing in 2007, my heart rates were about the same, if not lower- and at that time, they did not recommend a pacemaker.
Because I told my EP and Cardio that I felt like I had light headness and never ever restful sleep, they both suggested that a pacemaker would benefit me.
Fast forward, I agree, decide to give this a shot, as I certainly wasnt running on all cylinders and really hoped this was the cause.
Now, post surgery, I am finding that I am actually feeling worse than before. My now faster heart rate is keeping me up at night- the pacer is set to 60bpm.
What is happening is that while my heart is beating along at 60, all of a sudden, a surge of something, adrenaline, etc kicks in, and throws it up to say close to 70.
This is happening esp at night and when the surge comes in, it kicks me awake, really before I get any sleep.
I have survived getting sleep with using small half does of the Ambien sleep pill- but even then, the most sleep I got in a row was about 6 hours.
My recovery from the actually surgery is beautiful, I am a very quick healer, so the pain of the incision, etc, is not at all the issue. I can also move my arm fully around, there is zero discomfort there too.
It is just "getting used" to having this much higher heart rate that my body, for whatever reason over the years, made go lower, possibly to compensate for something else.
Now that my pulse rate is higher, I am wondering if whatever made it go lower naturally in the first place was my bodies way of trying to compensate for some other condition, maybe even non heart related that is now being aggrivated.
I have a Medtronic Sure Scan - two leads. I went in for an adjustment on 4/9, and my EP did lower me from 70 to 60 and turned down rate response from 7 to 3, since I was complaining that even playing the guitar was sending my heart beating way too quickly.
He was not familiar with the Rate Hysteresis setting (sleep mode setting on this model)- and I wasnt either, until I did my online homework and found the Medtronic Revo SureScan technical manual on the Medtronic Website.
Basically, this manual is HOW to program the device. Me being an IT person in real life, I see the settings I want to try, and am pretty sure the will work, right on page 105, heck I have them printed out!
I have the Medtronic Revo Surescan MRI, RVDR01. The initial settings are at DDDR.
I am going to suggest that they use the AAI mode, which will just fire the Atrial pacing lead, then they can program the pacer to go into the "Sleep mode" when it detects inactivity.
Hopefully, my adrenaline bursts or whatever goes on will not trigger it out of that before I can get to sleep. I believe there is another setting within that area from reading the manual that will tell the unit to avoid tracking these events and not to go back into normal awake mode(God I hope I am reading the manual right!).
On Monday, 4/9- here are my stats- the atrial lead was pacing me at over 90% of the time, makes perfect sense since my resting heart rate previous to the PM was 47, of course it is going to pace me that high.
The ventrial lead was doing about 3%- as the EP told me at surgery time- it wouldnt be doing all that much, and there is he is correct, I assume it is there for a down the road type thing.
I have all ready played my card of getting into the doctors office twice before my first "real" appoinment.
I know I have to give things a chance to work out and not be so impatient- but boy, sleep or lack thereof, is kinda a big thing.
I do see some improvements, or I am just getting used to things.
My next appointment is on May 7th, which right now seems a long time away.
I really dont know what to expect at this point- this could be all a normal part of the process of my body just trying to re synch itself. If so, boy it sucks!
I even stopped posting here for the last week because of my mental status- I felt so scared and out of whack within myself that I would not have made much sense, or un-necessarily caused myself more stress by just rambling symptoms, some of which I know are stress induced.
At this point, I am mentally trying to "quit the stinking thinking" so to speak, but let me tell you it is hard.
Part of me is trying to be patient- but the other part of me is like, "buddy, you just made a mistake, you have to live with it for now until either this is adjusted to work, or you decide to have it "turned off"
I am hoping by May 7th to have enough data to go on that will say, "hey, it is getting better and lets try to tweak these settings".
Or, "I think this maybe was a choice that I made, and something else in my body is not liking what I have done- lets undo this"
It is quite the quandry, to me at least, but I am hoping that some experiences from real people might shed some light on what to expect- and the lesser known mental angle of all of this- that was something that totally hit me-
I know Rome wasnt built in a day- but feeling now like a prisoner inside an even seemingly less functioning body than I had two weeks ago, I wasnt bargaining for either.
9 Comments
Hi
by Marissa - 2012-04-12 05:04:25
"Buyers remorse" - couldn't have worded it better myself. I'm 32 and I got my PM for an infrequent heart block (of varying degrees) that caused syncope. As soon as I had it put it I felt no different, apart from the pain of course. My problem is intermittent so i felt no beneficial effect. My head went into an immediate spin of "its all going to get infected, I have to have x number of box changes over my life etc. etc. what have I done??
My husband doesnt like to talk about it and my friends won't mention it, and change the subject if i mention it. My problem not theirs I know.
As far as the mental adaptation goes, there's a lot to it. Hard to put in an email.
Back to the technical stuff - youre used to sleeping at a low heart rate, as most people are. With your low rate at 60 overnight youre definitley going to get disturbed sleep. I too have a medtronic surescan, and I demanded mine be set at 50 during the day and 50 at night, using the built in sleep setting. The sleep setting is actually apparently factory shipped at 50 bpm, so if theyve set your bedtime and wake times correctly, you should be at a lower rate of 50 overnight anyway.
Oh, and don't worry about rambling on here, just go ahead and do it.
Marissa x
Just a thought
by Shortcake - 2012-04-12 08:04:29
Hi,
I under stand your " buyers remorse", when I got my first pacer I was suffering the opposite, my heart rate was 160 resting And they knocked off my first treadmill after 52 seconds when my rate hit 245 and climbing. It made no sense to me, I was healthy, worked full time, had a 2 year old and ran 10 miles a day. It all hit suddenly. The pacer slowed down my rate and I felt awful and sleep was impossible. Of course, I had Other issues going on that were diagnosed later. It was all related to a root canal that I had a year and a half before and the antibiotic did not kill the bacteria in the access. I had septic poisoning and it caused restrictive cardiomyopathy. I know none of this relates to you and you're thinking what is she trying to say. Well, I realized it is the change from our norm to this thing in us now. It is a big mental issue that they don't prepare you for. It took me about a year to adjust to feeling like I was the strange one that no one understood. No one talks to you about it and You hate to blurt out "let me tell you about my pacer!". I ended up having to leave my job that I loved and felt like the worst mother in the world. My two year old needed things I could not do and depression hit with a vengeance. My story is long and I won't bore you with the details. I ended up on the transplant list and was given 5 years to live. Well after many pacers and many adjustments to them and to my life, I came to realize this is just another chapter. My two year old will soon be 19 years old. I have had a wonderful life due to these little contraptions.
(as I have stated several times I just received my 15th pm last week)
I did not mean to ramble on, I am just trying to say hang in there...it is all worth it and it does get better! Give yourself the time to adjust, the time to cry and the time to laugh!
You'll feel better when they get you tweaked to the right settings and when you get some sleep. By the way, try a Benadryl before bedtime. This was my physician's suggestion after I tried tons of sleeping pills and they made me feel worse. I still use this when I have problems sleeping now.
I just found this site and it is a wonderful place for info, to vent and to make friends for the support we all need! Even though I am a newbie here, let me say welcome aboard! Good luck and hang in there!
Susan
Medtronics Reps
by Heidiglassmeyer - 2012-04-13 01:04:07
Hey, sounds like you are way ahead of the game in trying to understand settings and what may work best for you. As Frank mentioned, Medtronic reps are great and from personal experience they will do what ever it takes to get your settings right. With that said, I have found that some are better than others. Try not to label yourself as a complainer. It is their job to get it right and you should continue to go back until it is. I think you will find several of us have gone back MANY times for adjustments. Hopefully once your settings are working for you you'll start to feel better. From personal experience at first I would see both my Cardio & EP and found there were too many "cooks in the kitchen" including one time in the hospital where my settings were changed and completely jacked up (my EP was not involved). From then on I only see my EP unless there is a valid reason for my Cardio to get involved. Unfortunately that can happen especially if you end up in the hospital.
For what it's worth my sleep mode is set at 50, programmed for a specific pm/am time, and no longer have a difficult time sleeping. I also have a seperate min/max setting for my RR function. My issue is opposite than yours, no AV function so may not be applicable.
So, try not to be so hard on yourself, you have your next appt around the corner and have great info to discuss with the tech. Until then, take it easy and maybe take a full ambien to get a good night sleep:)
Take care,
Heidi
Keep after it
by ElectricFrank - 2012-04-13 01:04:58
With your background in I.T. you are able to understand the manual and operation of the pacer. The first thing to realize is that you likely already know more than the doctor who is deciding on the adjustments. The hard thing to get over is the feeling you are missing something.
I'm an electronic engineer and ran into the same thing. I have the opposite of you. My problem is AV block where I have a normal sinus rhythm, but my ventricles don't get the message. All I needed is for the pacer to sense the atrial beat and use it to time a ventricle pace. Simple, except that they added a SSS diagnosis even though there was a very visible atrial beat on the ECG. So they put me in DDDR mode and the Rate Response parameters were way too sensitive. They also set my Upper Tracking Limit to 120. Everything I did drove my HR up against the limit which creates a bunch of skipped beats. So I downloaded the manual and also put together an ECG for myself. Then took in a list a list of settings. Suddenly the whole world looked better.
I see you have a Medtronic pacer. I've found their reps to be excellent in working with the settings. They are fellow engineers and aren't threatened by someone who understands the system. Your case is a bit different than mine. Programming the Rate Response system is a lot more difficult. It is essentially an open loop control system with gain, smoothing, and limits. I would start by asking to have a session with a Medtronics rep. If you get to see one I would also make it clear that you don't want to play any medical ethics games, that the Medtronics rep is to be free to disagree with the doctor.
If I can help feel free to drop me a PM. I also have some ideas on the sleep problem.
best,
frank
Thanks for the words
by jds66 - 2012-04-13 02:04:08
Thanks Heidi- while certainly words are not going to "heal" me- knowing there are others that can relate what I am going through and can offer a word to two of advice is a healing form, much the way a prayer can be.
For those who have commented and tried to be supportive of this tough time for me- I say, your words are forms of prayers- and I am thankful for your offering.
(Hey, this is probably everyones wakeup call, when we get to these points of life, such as having a PM put in, and I subscribe to a higher calling to help me however possible-
Sleepless?
by donb - 2012-04-13 08:04:43
Hi, You can add another member with the same diagnosis, electronics background, same mental anguish. It's taken me 20 years & 4 PMs' to accept the fact that it takes time for our minds to settle down with all the thoughts keeping us from restfull sleep. Benadryl also does wonders for me but it is most effective with initial dosage. I've had to use it many years for skin alergy on occasion. I must say you hit the jackpot with top advice especially after your informative posting.
I had a real good interogation by a St. Jude rep and she made some slight setting adjustments. After asking my background she really opened up with answers. At this time where your mind is working on you a good session with your PM rep would really be helpfull. Our very informative member Frank has been a real bonus for so many of us as members. Can't forget Smitty & so many other supportive members. As you will adjust to your Titanium buddy you will find him a real friend.
donb
Take Care
by Moner - 2012-04-13 11:04:01
Hi JDS66,
I feel the same way as you do, I had my PM implanted in 1/2012.
I guess I'm still in denial.
Your experiences are a mirror image of what I'm still experiencing, Heidi summed it up perfectly, DON'T label yourself a "complainer".
I'm glad Electric Frank responded back to you, he's always chock full of good advice.
Take care,
>^..^<
Thanks for these thoughts and ideas
by jds66 - 2012-04-13 11:04:27
To you all- thank you for listening to my thoughts and ideas- heck, the one that benfits the most from this is me if I can guide the techs and EP to the most optimum settings.
Not only am I starting to wear myself out, but wear out my support system- my girlfriend, etc. So, that is just something I need to battle through.
I am afraid of being the "trouble patient" all ready, as I had the first visit with the Medtronic rep after my visit to the ER on 4/3.
My EP was off that week, and that is when they thought that turning it UP was a better idea- where my cardiologist thought I was gaining extra beats with it at the factory setting of 60, thought the extra beats went away at 70 and sent me home with it at that rate and a prescription of Digionex.
I certaily did NOT feel better at 70 bpm and endured that hellish few days, as they scheduled me an appt with my EP, the first appt he had the first day he was back, this past Monday, 4/9.
He said in fact that I did not have extra beats, and that the cardio's assessment was not right, and I was to stop taking the Digionex.
I also told him to lower it to 60bpm and that the Rate Response sensitiveity is just too high, it was getting me winded doing anything other than walking. (which before PM, walking would raise raise my pulse oh so slightly and I could walk forever).
The Medtronic tech was not there this past Monday with the EP appt and I didnt have the knowledge from the Medtronic manual that I am armed with now.
If so, believe me, I would have guided him right through.
He was not famiiar with the AAI mode, which basically just does ventricular pacing, which really is all I need.
In AAI mode, that is where you can set the Rate Hysteresis mode(essentialy, that is the technical name for Sleep Mode.
What needs to be done, from my interpretation is to set the rate hystersis mode to something that will work for me, say like 40bpm at night.
What is then supposed to happen is that if the heart rate starts to go down to 40 and wants to go lower, it will then suspend the Rate Hysteresis mode and go back to 60.
Not sure if there is a way to suspend it wanting to kick back to regular mode instead of just keeping me at 40bpm at night, that is where my expertise ends- since my only expertise comes from reading a manual- I hate even calling it expertise, it is just my comprehension.
Bascially, I am trying to simulate my heart condition pre PM, which loops back to the question- if it is causing me this much distress- why have it in the first place? (believe me, I know, dog chasing the tail thinking)
I all ready know in that office I am on the verge of being labelled the complainer- but none of the people, including the doctor have to live with what I am going through 24x7 now.
If it is some combination of settings fine- lets get to it- If it isnt that, then fine, lets put it to "off mode", monitor me with a Holter again and see if things go back where they were, at least that produced less symptoms than where I am at today.
I still am pretty sure that the reason I developed SSS is that it was my bodies way of trying to compensate for something within me that went wrong, neurologic or hormonal-
I believe bringing up the heart rate to this much new higher level is fighting that issue- or exposing it- so this may not totally be PM dependant issue- since some of the same issues I had prior to PM, the pressure in my head mainly, are still there post PM.
I am not sure if I should bug the Cardio office again, or just wait until next Monday. I dont see things "getting better"- but at the same time dont want to give things a chance.
Just tough when your not used to living on sleeping pills and felt fairly strong before this, and now feel like your falling apart post surgery- scary time- but I am trying to make sense of it all- it is how my rational brain works-
Thanks again to those that wrote so far- at the least- they tell me I am NOT the only one that has had some real tough post PM difficulties.
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by sputnick - 2012-04-12 04:04:09
Hiya,
I can't pretend to be an authority on pacemakers like some of the people on the site, but maybe it would help if they lowered your kick-in rate to 50. That is what mine is set at and I seem to do fine with that. I, however have heart block n pauses up to 10 secs plus sinus n AV node dysfunction (whatever that means in practice)! so pace 100% ventrically n 12% atrially so not sure how that would do for you.
Hope you are feeling better soon Jan