Anyone been electrocuted?

Shock

by PortCityPacer - 2024-10-02 15:34:53

When I got my PM I had a nice discussion with the technician that assisted and he said my Boston Scienctific PM is protected by internal circuits (zener diodes) against electric shocks from defibrillators  and other sources. 

No, but shocks around the home

by Gemita - 2024-10-02 19:02:43

Hello Xtrabeat, I have certainly had my fair share of small shocks around the home when pulling plugs out of faulty sockets, but nothing more than that.  I am so sorry to hear your news.  I can imagine how it affected you.

I agree with what has been said by PortCityPacer that our pacemakers are protected by internal circuits against electric shocks.  Even so, I would get your device (and you) checked, or at least ring your clinic and speak to one of the technicians for advice.  They will usually ask you whether you have noticed any unusual symptoms, like an increase in rhythm disturbances or other difficult symptoms.  No symptoms would be a sign that all is probably well, at least for the moment.  If you start noticing symptoms I would definitely speak to a doctor.  In fact I feel you should do so in any event.

I know your device is only minimally pacing you, but you could also send a transmission to your clinic to see whether at the time of your shock, there was anything recorded?

You were so excited by your recent adjustments and I hope this shock won't set you back.  

Xtrabeat and Angry Sparrow

by Gemita - 2024-10-03 00:44:33

https://www.pacemakerclub.com/message/19086/electric-fence

Is this the link Angry Sparrow?  Xtrabeat, hope the above link helps a little?  You can also type in electric fence, top right under Q search and find more posts

Electrocuted?

by piglet22 - 2024-10-03 06:06:20

Electric shocks, yes, electrocuted no.

I've had quite a number of shocks over the years and still here to tell the tale.

Some accidental, some intentional.

List includes 240 volts AC, 250 volts DC, several thousand volts unknown type.

The last one was administered by a consultant during nerve conduction tests. About six shocks from hand to upper arm, PM side. Extremely painful and made me feel ill. I don't think it was due to PM malfunction. The consultant was not at all interested in the PM.

UK domestic supply is 240 volts AC at 50-Hz. 240 volts is the average. It swings between over 300 to below 200.. It's a sine wave and the maximum value is 1.4 x 240 (square root of 2).

How you are affected, PM or not depends on current and frequency. Voltage drives the current.

Here's one for the electricians out there. It's my understanding that DC is more dangerous than AC. DC polarizes muscles, but as the frequency rises to kilo Hertz, the polarization effect becomes less important.

Without looking, I don't know what type of shock an electric fence delivers. As they are mainly in rural  situations and can accidentally touched by humans, it can be painful, but not lethal. The same applies to Tasers used by the Police.

It's probably high voltage alternating current limited to a non-lethal value.

When you get a static shock from the door handle, that will be high voltage but with very low charge. Machines for generating high voltage entertainment shocks use the same principle of rubbing materials, insulators, togetherto build up a charge.

How any shock is delivered and how it affects you depends on the path. If your body becomes part of a circuit and you touch a live conductor with one hand and ground with the other, the current will pass through your body, through your chest and may be lethal.

You don't need to be touching ground as your body acts like a capacitor. Your body is already at ground potential and an applied voltage will try to charge you up. A one handed 240 volt AC shock feels like having your arm pulled off.

I've touched conductors and felt nothing, Dry skin, work hardened can insulate you.

People who work with live electricity will take special precautions like insulated tools, gloves, boots, even chainmail suits in very high voltage situations.

I've certainly used up my nine lives and having a PM makes me even more cautious.

Having protection in your house is a must. In the UK protective devices are called RCDs or Residual Current Device. In USA, it might be a Ground Fault Device. They work by detecting an imbalance in current flowing in live and neutral conductors and very quickly turn off the power if an imbalance of just thousandths of amps is detected.

I've still had shocks with RCDs installed and working correctly, but the current could have been below the trip level.

I don't know what protective measures are in PMs, but there are many ways to protect circuitry. Wired telephones have lightning and surge protection fitted as standard, though nothing will stop a nearby direct lightning strike to an overhead line.

PMs can certainly survive one handed 240 volt AC shocks and one arm high voltage shocks, but that's my experience only and not a general rule.

No-one should be exposed to lethal voltages in a workplace or domestic situation. Regulations are in place to prevent that, but mistakes happen.

I would strongly recommend that any PM user has their installation checked and if necessary have an RCD fitted or if already fitted, regularly tested. RCDs have a test button fitted for users to test with and an electrician will have more sophisticated instruments to test all the RCD characteristics.

PS

Apparently cattle fences are about 2000 to 7000 volts and can be AC or DC. Portable units use 12 volt batteries and will have circuitry to raise 12 volts to kilovolts. The charge might be stored on a capacitor and is in the order of 1.2 joules. I wonder how this compares to a defibrillator?

Apararently, in some prisons etc., an elecric fence for humans can have two or more settings. A DC non-lethal shock, then if there is a second attempt to cross it, it delivers a lethal AC voltage.

There is a note (Wikipedia) that poorly maintained cattle fences can interfere with electronic devices.

Gemita

by piglet22 - 2024-10-03 10:34:15

Have you checked that all your 13A plugs meet current standards?

Some years back, three pin (square, not round) plugs did not have insulated pins, so you could pull the plug out partially and your fingers could touch the still connected live and neutral pins.

New plugs have to have partially insulated (plastic, white or black) pins so you can't touch a live pin as you pull the plug out of the socket.

A colleague at work got a shock from an old style plug and every plug in the large company had to be checked and changed where necessary.

This is why a working RCD is so important.

Carpal Tunnel

by docklock - 2024-10-03 11:03:30

"The last one was administered by a consultant during nerve conduction tests. About six shocks from hand to upper arm, PM side. Extremely painful and made me feel ill. I don't think it was due to PM malfunction. The consultant was not at all interested in the PM." 

The surgeon that did my Carpal Tunnel surgery wouldn't allow a 'nerve conduction test' after I told her I had a PM.  She did my other hand several year ago (before PM) and I had to have a nerve conduction test.  The shocks literally lifted me off the table, so I'm not so sure it wouldn't have interferred with my PM now. 

I've seen videos of several people holding hands while one touched an electric cattle fence. When the fence charged -- all of the people received a shock.  I've also seen videos of 'not too bright' idiots urinating on an electric fence. Can't imigine the pain that must have produced. 

Electrocuted

by Lurker (Doc DX) - 2024-10-03 11:29:07

An electric fence can put out up to 3 joules of energy.

The circuit is basically that of an automotive ignition system putting out several thousand volts at low amperage ,and a timer circuit. I remember when I was in my teens you could actually hear the fence "sing".as it pulsed.

A hospital defibrillator puts out about 150 to 360 joules of energy.the last time I was in the hospital I asked the nurse how many joules I would get and tthat is what I was told.  She also called it heart sandwich.  A big sticker front and back of the body.

Doc DX

Cardioversions

by sgmfish - 2024-10-03 15:47:09

"Apparently cattle fences are about 2000 to 7000 volts.....and is in the order of 1.2 joules. I wonder how this compares to a defibrillator?"

I've had 6 cardioversions to stop afib (basically the same kind of thing as a defibrillator). I weigh ~220 pounds. They always use 200 joules on me,

Electrical work

by Rch - 2024-10-03 16:28:42

Ever since the PM, I have completely stopped doing any electrical repairs around the house except changing light bulbs and that too with glove and shoes!😁 If PM is what keeps us alive, why take chances playing with activities that might directly or indirectly cause some unknown glitch that you are not aware of. The little piece of gadget has functions built into it like human brain multitasking in microseconds and who knows how megashocks zapping the mini brain could do to it's myriad of algorithms down the road! If any one is aware of any randomly controlled double blind human studies on this, please post it. I'm sure there are many who who do electrical work for a living, and would love to learn more on this preferably through an evidence based trial! 

Piglet

by Gemita - 2024-10-03 17:38:57

Hi Piglet, thank you for all your help with the electrics.  I am sure a lot of what we have doesn’t conform to UK safety standards.  We moved to our current property over 40 years ago and a lot of the sockets remain the same.  However we do have an excellent electrician now and he has made us safe.  We have an effective RCD box which trips from time to time but no way near as often any more.  

Some years ago we had some builders in when we were flooded and they cut corners with the electrics and didn’t “earth” our bungalow properly.  We were shocked when we discovered this and a lot else.

We have still got halogen lighting in the kitchen and bathroom but are slowly introducing LED bulbs, so we are trying to upgrade Piglet, but it takes time and money.   Unfortunately we have to look after ourselves first before we can worry about maintaining our home.

I agree we need to have our installation checked and to have our RCD  regularly tested.  This is happening now since we have taken out an expensive Home Care service to cover the electrics, appliances, boiler, radiators, drains and plumbing.  As we get older we cannot manage these ourselves anymore.

Well Xtrabeat, how are you doing?   Are you having any symptoms from your electric shock?

Electricity

by PortCityPacer - 2024-10-03 17:40:29

piglett22, to answer your question, AC can kill you, current as low as 100milliamps can be fatal, AC can cause ventricular fibrillation. DC can burn you if the voltage is high enough but normally is not fatal.

doclock

by piglet22 - 2024-10-03 19:38:00

Interesting to see the different attitudes to nerve conduction tests.

The consultant who did mine gave me no idea what was about to happen.

He was without any sort of emotion or compassion.

I guessed something was going to happen when he put my arm on a pillow.

Then he zapped me. I let out a string of expletives, almost involuntary. He then went on to repeat several times more.

You see people go down after Tasers and I got a taste of what it must feel like.

His lack of apology gave me the impression that he almost enjoyed it.

About five minutes later, I started to feel unwell

 One of his assistants sat me down and got me a cup of tea. He said, if you think that was bad, you should try the version where they put the electrodes into your muscles.

One flew over the cuckoo's nest came to mind.

Horrible things happen in neurology and psychiatric establishments

 My aunt had ECT and I never forgot that.

The consultant said if the condition, lack of sensation is my little finger, didn't improve, they would carry out surgery on my ulna nerve. Needless to say, I didn't take the offer up.

Gemita

by piglet22 - 2024-10-03 19:56:23

Are you in a rural location?

Quite often in rural properties with overhead power lines, the supply isn't earthed by the cable.

Instead, they install an earthing rod which has to be very carefully installed.

My house isn't earthed conventionally and only two cables enter the house. There is no separate earth cable. Instead, they earth the neutral cable in a system called PME, Protective Multiple Earthing.

One of the conditions for allowing this system is that an RCD is mandatory.

Builders have a nasty habit of overlooking things like that.

Frequent tripping of RCDs can indicate a faulty installation, but hopefully your new home care policy will keep a check on things.

Hi

by Lavender - 2024-10-04 10:43:39

I'm one who's had nerve conduction tests prior to getting a pacemaker. I found it not to be painful at all. It was done in my spine/hip area. 🥴I anticipated being uncomfortable but it never happened. 
 

As a small child, I grabbed onto an electric fence in a horse pasture. It definitely was a shock and I cried. After that I feared electricity. I also was shocked plugging in the Christmas tree as a child. That led to a long time fear of electric plugs in general but I got over it as an adult. ⚡️

shocking experience

by Gotrhythm - 2024-10-04 15:52:56

For what it's worth I had a nerve conduction test on my left arm about 6 months after I got my first pacemaker.

The test was most unpleasant, but the pacemaker continued to work fine for another 12 years.