Blood thinners

Hi  long term arrhythmia, bradycardia controlled by single lead pacemaker for 8 years, cardiologist recommends anticoagulant but I depend on a good diet and exercise, anyone else who takes this approach I would be interested what you think thanks,


14 Comments

blood thinners

by Tracey_E - 2022-12-06 10:08:54

Having the pacer alone isn't a reason to need a blood thinner. They are recommended when we have a condition such as afib that puts us at a higher risk of stroke. If you have a condition such as afib, diet and exercise will not prevent a stroke. The choice is yours, but if they recommend blood thinners, there is usually a compelling reason. 

blood thinners

by new to pace.... - 2022-12-06 10:32:33

I use a Turmeric supplement that i buy from my acupuncturist.  works for me.  Plus i also use it for  pain works in a half hour.  Also use when having  allergery reaction.   For me right now this works.

 As has been discussed before on this site.  This way does not work for everyone.  You also have to make sure you are taking good supplements. Not the over-the-counter brands.

new to pace

blood thinners

by AgentX86 - 2022-12-06 11:30:30

You may indeed need anticoagulation, depending on your arrhythmia (if any).  Stroke is nothing to fool around with and the worst outcome isn't death, though it's quite possible.  You can take the CHADS2 test for yourself to see if you need it.  The higher the score the more you need anticoagulation. If it says you do, think again about having a stroke. Could your family handle it?

Other than its cost (expensive!), the NOACs are very good drugs.  Their side-effects are minimal and they are safe.

turmeric

by Tracey_E - 2022-12-06 11:38:43

High doses of tuermeric will inhibit the body's ability to absorb iron so you can end up anemic. Be sure your doctor knows if you decide to go this route. 

Anticoagulants

by Gemita - 2022-12-06 12:05:37

https://www.mdcalc.com/calc/801/cha2ds2-vasc-score-atrial-fibrillation-stroke-risk

I expect your doctor has been guided by the CHADS VASC score (see link).  I am sure most members would prefer fewer or no meds.  I certainly would and I tried staying off anticoagulants for as long as I could, preferring instead natural treatments like lifestyle improvements and a healthy diet.  But with AF and risk factors for a stroke I was eventually persuaded to work with my doctors to find an anticoagulant which would suit me.

An arrhythmia like AFib is so dangerous if we have risk factors for an AFib related stroke. It only takes a short run of this arrhythmia to potentially cause harm.  My doctors gave me several months to come to a decision but finally told me that without anticoagulation they couldn’t offer me any surgical treatments like an ablation in the future because the risks of a clot forming and travelling to the brain were very real.  

I have regrettably seen family members suffer from strokes caused by silent episodes of AFib.  I understand your concerns but there is always an anticoagulant out there that will suit you if you have a patient doctor who is prepared to listen to your very real concerns

Blood thinners

by Davide - 2022-12-06 15:49:51

Thanks for replies and advice! It's a decision I have to make and have been reading about the new anticoagulants. It seems I would have to avoid certain foods that normally are associated with a good diet and have a anticoagulant effect in themselves. Leafy greens, garlic ,ginger and foods that are high in vit E.olive oil. On the Chad's scale I should have been taken them for some years. I need to learn more about my particular AF but I never get any info from the arrhythmia nurses. I had my second pacemaker about 4 weeks ago!

 

 

 

Anticoagulants

by Gemita - 2022-12-06 17:23:16

David, the newer anticoagulants like Apixaban, Edoxaban, Rivaroxaban, Dabigatran do not require dietary restrictions, as say would be required if you were on Warfarin.  I love green leafy vegs and am eating whatever I like on Edoxaban and I am completely unaware that I am even taking an anticoagulant.  But I worked hard to find the best medication for me.  Many here are on Apixaban which is one of the best in terms of safety.  I know it is a real dilemma, so keep asking questions.  I was referred to an anticoagulation clinic and they were incredibly patient with me, more so than my cardiologist.

On the AF front, whether you have paroxysmal, persistent or permanent AF, if it is fast AF or slow AF, the requirement for an anticoagulant will be the same unfortunately if you have risk factors.  Even if AF occurs rarely, like once a year, even for short runs, that would still be an indication that you need protecting since you clearly have risk factors.  But take your time and be happy with your decision 

AF and stroke

by AgentX86 - 2022-12-06 18:12:35

Just a little push in the anticoagulation direction.  Evidently I've had two "micro-infarctions", very small areas of the brain damaged by an ischemic stroke. There is no proof but it's assumed they were caused by minute clots being thrown off before my AF was diagnosed and I was anticoagulated or perhaps silent AF during the time between a successfull DCCV and the next known AF episode.

Anyway, these caused me to have aura once a month, where I felt a strange, falling, sensation and smelled the faint smell of blood.  Eventually I had a full-on seizure and I have slight balance issues.  It could have been a lot worse.

Some don't like taking drugs, I get that, but phobias aren't smart when it's your life in the balance. If your doctor is prescribing anticoagulants, it's dumb not to take them.  ...but it's your life.

vegetables

by Tracey_E - 2022-12-06 18:52:30

They can control the amount of blood thinner in your system with the pills. Leafy green veggies, not so much. If you eat too many of the dark greens while taking thinners, it changes the amount in your blood stream (at least, that's how I understand it). So that's why something seemingly healthy doesn't mix with blood thinners. 

I have hemochromatosis (genetic disorder where body doesn't process iron properly) so I am not supposed to eat the dark greens either. Just because something is healthy in general doesn't mean it's good for all of us. Other veggies are fine, I only avoid spinach and kale. Avoid, not give up completely, I had a delicious kale salad for lunch yesterday. A serving or two a week isn't going to hurt anything.

Pretty sure you can't eat enough greens to do what one blood thinner will do. 

Blood Thinners and Veggies

by Marybird - 2022-12-06 20:06:27

The only blood thinner affected by the intake of veggies is coumadin, which works as an anticoagulant by inhibiting the production of the Vitamin-K dependent coagulation factors (II, V, VII and X) in the liver. The vitamin K is a cofactor used in the production of these factors and taking in veggies or other foods high in Vitamin K can counteract the coumadin, making it less effective as an anticoagulant. For a person taking coumadin, and having its effectiveness as an anticoagulant measured using the prothrombin INR to determine the dosage, eating those veggies can decrease the INR out of the desired therapeutic range. The doctor/clinic may decide to increase the coumadin to bring it back into the therapeutic range, which might do it if the person keeps eating the same amount of those vitamin-K laden food, but if they cut back, up goes the INR. Kind of goes back and forth that way, and it can be hard to control if the person doesn't watch his/her vitamin K intake. 

The newer anticoagulants have a completely different mechanism  for anticoagulation, Xarelto and Eliquis inhibit the activity of Factor Xa, which is not affected by Vitamin K levels. That's why there are no lab tests needed to determine the dosage.   

Blood thinners

by Davide - 2022-12-06 21:01:50

Information very much appreciated! 

Anticoagulation Me Too

by Stache - 2022-12-11 22:34:25

I take Pradaxa and a blood thinner every day.  The Pradaxa (anticoagulation) is very expensive and I was told I would have to take the rest of my life.  I have been on it for 23 months now and it does have side effects.  The doctor keeps telling me I am at risk without it with my AFib.  Like others, I have read and studied everything about the meds I am taking and why.  Pradaxa does lower my blood clot risk factor and I take it for my family that wants me around as long as possible.  You have to decide what is best for you.

Anti coagulation

by Davide - 2023-01-16 10:26:53

Once again thanks for your replies! Appointment with my cardiologist tomorrow so I will try and I will try and get some more info on my particular AF, I think it's permanent AF, thankyou!

 

Anticoagulants

by Davide - 2023-02-02 10:40:27

Hi, further to this thread, this week I started taking 30mg edoxaban. I felt slightly odd after the first dose but seems to have settled now! Any other info on side effects would be appreciated, David

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