Running a treadmill

Hi,

Anyone feeling interference/disturbance when running a treadmill?

Have felt this when I been running during the last 7 years or more. But never expect it was the treadmill, interference with the PM, that causing it. Always believed it was my own fitness level.

But was running in 12 km/h. Pulse was about 170 bpm and passed about 2.3 km. During the run it was like a block or cramp slowely bulding up in the chest, the area near the heart/electrode. And also in the nerve up to the head in the back of the neck. So when I passed 2.3 km I needed to stop. Because of the cramp. And this has happen every time I run inside on a treadmill, since 7 years or more.

So went of the machine and sat down on a chair in the gym to calm down. And started to thinking… I have to test this.

So went back on the treadmill. Slowly speed it up and also let it run at different speed levels 4, 6, 8, 10, 12 (km/h). But did not run myself. Just stand still with one leg at each side of the treadmill and let the machine run on its own. And felt if anything felt strange. Yep, when it was at 11/12 km/h the same sensation and “block/cramp” appeared in chest/neck.

I neeeeeeed!!! To get my sensing levels up. This is ridiculous and make my life a misery. I have a normal heart. Just some AV block when I was child and teenager. Now I’m 37 and can’t live a normal life because of this crap. I’m so so so sick of it!!!!


8 Comments

I Know What I Would Do !

by IAN MC - 2019-08-18 16:03:02

i )   You seem to be having some sort of problem when you run on treadmills.  Have you tried road-running ?  If so, do you experience the same problems or not ?  If you can happily do road-running  then this would prove that the problem is with the treadmill.

ii)  You need to confirm that you are not experiencing angina  (which is usually a plumbing , rather than an electrical problem)

iii ) I see you are in Sweden. I don't know how easy it is for you, but you need to persuade your PM guru to wire you up for an E.C.G  / Echo while you run on a treadmilll and find out exactly what is happening !

iv ) I see from your previous posts that other devices seem to interfere with your heart rhythm. Some people are apparently hyper-sensitive to E.M.R . Have you discussed this with your Drs ?

Best of luck

Ian

treadmills

by Tracey_E - 2019-08-18 16:14:01

I can't imagine what on the treadmill could be messing with the pacer. When something interferes, it puts it in test mode like when they interrogate so your rate would drop significantly, it wouldn't be 170. If it is interfering it will show up in the interrogation report so it should be easy enough to verify. Tell them the day and time next time they do a download. 

Do you know what your upper limit is? Is it possible that your atrial rate is getting higher than your upper limit? The pacer can only pace us as fast as it's programmed to go. With av block our atrial rate is generally normal, we just need the pacer to make sure the ventricles keep up. So, if your upper limit is say, 150, and your atrial rate gets up to 180, the pacer can only make the ventricles go to 150 so the heart is out of sync. This feels like hitting a wall! Been there, done that. If this always happens with the exact same pulse rate, that may be the culprit. 

Does it happen when you run on the street? Elliptical? A different treadmill?

If you have already had your settings adjusted, I would suggest asking to get on a treadmill for a stress test while on the pacer computer. They can see real time what is happening. That's how they fine tuned my settings, saved a lot of time. It might be the pacer, it might be the treadmill, it might be something else entirely.

If you just had av block as a child/teen, do you have reason to think you are not pacing now? If you aren't pacing, then anything happening is all you. The pacer is a gas pedal, not a brake, it just watches when the heart beats on its own so any interference would be a non-event.

It sounds like maybe more is going on? Trouble on a treadmill shouldn't ruin your life. My pacer is an occasional annoyance when I work out but I don't let it stop me. I run and do Crossfit. I'm slow and sometimes I have to take a break to let my hr come down, but I finish the classes and log the miles. The rest of the time I don't even think about it. What else do you want to do that you can't?

investigate it futher..

by a_model - 2019-08-19 07:21:12

Thank you for your inputs. Im going to go futher with these. And mabey post a longer comment later on when I have time, to follow up..

I did run 4 times outside in Juli 7,5 km and did not feel this "cramp" then. I also play floorball 2h a week. Then you play intens in 15 - 20 min and rest for 5 min. And no "feeling" like this then. Just normal physical effort/exertion and tierdness becouse you run and do things that make you tierd. But no strange cramp sensation in chest and head..

I also have problems to keep the energy leves for focus on good levels, during daily activites. Feels like the air flows out fom a balon. My focus level are the balon. And even if I dont do anything that requires lot of enrgy it's flowing out and I get tierd. 

Going to contact my hospital and talk with them. But experiens tells that you need to come with the solution before you visit them. 

Also going to visit a gym nerby and do the same test today. Just stand beside and let the treadmill run of it's own. Becouse I have not done any running today.

Thank you! 

Did a "test" today again...

by a_model - 2019-08-19 14:08:17

Nope, I stand by my experience. Was at the gym today. I have not been exercise, just sit on the office chair, all day.

Stand up on the treadmill and slovely increase the speed. But not run on it. Feel if something was strange. And around speed 12 km/h the same thing happen. It started to like twitch in the nerves in the neck and cramp in the chest...

Thank you for your comment Tracey_E! But I do not agree with you:

"If you just had av block as a child/teen, do you have reason to think you are not pacing now? If you aren't pacing, then anything happening is all you. The pacer is a gas pedal, not a brake, it just watches when the heart beats on its own so any interference would be a non-even"

- When the PM "feeling"/sensing the heartbeat. It sends a signal to the PM from the elctrode to do a voltage division, to detect if it is a heart beat to a reference point. So the PM is active all the time, detecting heart beats. And when elctrodes flow true a wire. A magnetic field gets created. That also regards components inside the PM. Shielding and filters is supose to reduce the risk of interference. But sometimes interference can occur anyway. So I say the PM it is active all the time 24h..

And if the sensing settings is low then it is more sensitive to sorunding electronic applications and devices.. Mine is set to the lowest sadly, becouse of my doctor... 

Treadmill Interference

by donr - 2019-08-19 21:42:48

Your problem is most interesting!  I had a treadmill once that had a motor die on me.  Took a new control board & motor.   In the process of replacing all of that I learned more about their operation than I ever wanted!

Treadmills are USUALLY run by DC motors with a controller that is Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) operated.  The controller that uses the PWM circuits is USUALLY in the console - which is right close to your chest, hence your PM. 

I think you really do have an in terference problem.  Here's why.  You only have a problem when you run at 11/12 Km/hr.  Nothing below that.  You even have the problem when you just stand there.  As you increase the speed of the treadmill, you change the fcrequency of the pulses in the motor control circuit.  As you increase the frequency, of the pulses, you increase the frequency of the many components of the wave shaoe of the pulses. 

The pulses of the PWM circuits are nearly square - vertical sides & flat tops.   To create this shape, takes a whole bunch of sinusoidal waves of many different increasing frequencies.  The higher frequencies can radiate, just like a radio wave.  As you crank up the speed, the number of those frequencies increase  - consequently increasing the possibility of interference w/ your PM. 

Try this - Turn on the treadmill & step away from it.  Get 2-3 meters away from it.  Do this for increasing speeds & see if that ends the interference problem.  If it does, you really do have an interference problem.  If it does not affect the  reactions of your body, look elsewhere for an answer.

Hope this helps.

Donr

nice inputs

by a_model - 2019-08-20 07:12:28

Ah another friendly human with knowleadge in electronics, many greatings :)

Yeah I know the feeling about the "learned more than I wanted" haha. "Just going to "fix" this small problem".. few hours later. So, so many parts and so, so many componentes to understand. I just wanted the damn thing to start haha.

I have had this condition for many years now. And starting to understand that it all comes down to "noise", as the desturbing "area" or interfearing source. So it's just not one thing that disturbes or interfer with the PM. It is noise or more, "noise levels" from different (electronic)sources. Aka. all sources that produces noise at a certain level. 

And it also depends on my activity in my nerves. And to be specific, the big nerve(Vagus) that has a connection between head/neck and heart Where the PM electrode is connected (and all the way down to stomach).

I have some examples.

- Riding the bus. Feeling a higher tension in nerves/chest when going with the bus. Why? becouse it has wifi, yay.

- Working in office. Only use wired computer and shut of the mobile phone. Why? becouse I get tierd and "loosing" energy if I have them on, yay.

- I have described it earlier. But have a server on my PC/windows 10 machine. "Hyper V". It is used for running a java platform (OCP). When that is on. Same things happen, yay.

- When I using apps on the mobile, mostly by social caracter(probebly becouse there are a server that manage the data) I getting tierd, yay.

- shutting of all background activity on phone apps.

- when setting location tracking on, on the phone. So GPS tracks you. Getting tierd and higher thension percieved in nerves, yay. 

- when reciving an email. Higher tension or lower. Depending on if it is a human or a server sending it out. Have been able to know if im recieving an email before I logged in to the email account and find it there... yay

- Wakes up in the middle of te night if I recieve an email some hour earlier (approx 2- 3 h). And have a tension headeche and tension in my teeth. And not beeing able to sleep before I have remove the email from email account. yay

- when microwave the food at lunch on work. Where a room with approximate 15 - 20 microwaves and two dishwaschers. yay.

- when running dishwasher at home. yay.

 - When I using the stove, changes happens in my nerves, yay.

- When people going in the appartment building using the tag reader. Noticeble changes in nervs and chest happens. My appartment is beside the building entrance.. yay.

- When playing music from computer. Same thing, yay.

- werry sensitive to sounds and some lights, yay

- Trouble with supermarket scanners, and svcanners/readers in an extra job at a furniture company, using RFID thechnique.. forced to quit that job. yay.

- trouble with google chrome cast(yeah it use wifi) but feeling more sensitive when it's on. yay.

- I have "grounded my selfe" and feel changes in my nerves. That whent fron high to low. yay

- A girlfriend was commentet when we were about to slep. That a sparkeling sound or crackling sound could be heard from my skull and head. I thought it was just me that could hear those sound.. yay

So I just love this little crappy box that is under my skin, just love it. it is decreasing my life "posibillities" thru the years.

But hey I might, I might faint... some day. And I dont know.. mabey I sellebrate that day as a "happy" day, for the rest of the hole year.. or mabey the 7 past years that Im feeling that I have lose in my life. So yeah thats a good trade. Sorry to be a negative one, but im starting to give up... And I dont care if someone think im sound weird. This is my life and im just describing it...

Im going to test what you suggested donr and let it run, step away, and see if somethings is off or not.

An if someone think im just talk out of my ... Here is an report about pacemakers beeing sensitive about noice from 50 Hz outlet.. we using 60 Hz in europe:

https://academic.oup.com/europace/article/13/9/1319/551300 

 

Just a thought

by Gotrhythm - 2019-08-21 14:26:42

I read the article you cited. Although it was interesting, the article itself was old (2011) and the study itself was conducted on pacamakers that were even older. (1998 to 2010) I'm not sure how applicable the findings would be to more recent pacemakers. 

Your experience is your experience. I'm not ready to dismiss you as weird. Just because I don't feel something, doesn't mean it's impossible for you to feel it. 

But here's something to think about. There are people who are sensitive to electomagnetic fields. They can feel EMF, and may have all sorts of symptoms, when others don't.

Since EMF is invisible and the source of EMF might also be hidden--it could be in a wall or on the other side of a whall--the cause of the mysterious feelings and symptoms can be hard to trace.

Is it possible that it's you, not the pacemaker, that's reacting to EMF? After all the pacemaker is sheilded, but you're not.

Just a thought.

Thank you for your thought

by a_model - 2019-08-24 06:42:36

Yeah in one way you have a point. My body is sensitive to EMF. But, the coin has always two sides.. My body have, become sensitive, since my PM operation. Because it has a low threshold for the sensing setting. I did not have these problems when I was an pacemaker free person. 

Yes the report were from 2011. I got my PM 2008. But the technique for set the sensing level has not been changed. So If you set it too low the PM becomes sensitive for EMF. 

If you are interested you can serach for "why is my pacemaker so sensitive" on google. And you get an explanation there too.

In the technical manual for my PM model. They describe how the sensing should be set. And give information if you dont follow those rules. My doctor does not follow this information.

 

You know you're wired when...

You run like the bionic man.

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