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Jogging and ICD movement?
- by Marie12
- 2013-10-10 09:10:12
- General Posting
- 1987 views
- 16 comments
I need to lose about 15 pounds and thought I would take up jogging. Plan was to start slow on a treadmill. I've had my ICD since July 3rd.
Yesterday I ran for an elevator (perhaps 15-20 feet). Immediately after, I felt discomfort in the ICD area. Still feeling it today.
I read the posts on this site about people running/jogging and they don't seem to have a problem. Is it just too early?
16 Comments
thank you
by Marie12 - 2013-10-10 09:10:06
Thank you Bostonstrong. Dr. did not clear me but I did talk to the staff at Cardio Rehab and they recommended one minute jogging and five walking. I am well endowed in the "chestral area" and it was difficult at first with the incision. In this situation it is not the incision but it feels as if the ICD is in a new location.
Site pain
by Bostonstrong - 2013-10-10 09:10:15
Hi, did your doctor clear you for jogging? I don't have an ICD, just a pm since June this year, but yes I have pain at the site with long runs. Still hurting from the 1/2 Sunday, I think it is just irritated tissue. Also I'm pretty large in the chestral area as church lady used to say, the gravity of that pulls at the incision. Intervals is a great way to start, I started with 5 seconds of slow running alternating with 1 minute of walking.
So, now...
by donr - 2013-10-11 02:10:58
...you know! The interesting part is that the fig version came before the apple .
I consulted for a nurse in my Cardio's practice this past Tues. She is skinny as a rail, but runs marathons like an addict. She was complaining about shin splints so It rekindled an ancient memory of those wonderful events. I 'splained it to her right there in the office. This woman is a real "Chatty Cathy." Never walks if she can run, is a whirlwind around the office & talks a mile a minute. She's also done a triathalon or two.
How are the aching muscles now?
Don
Donr
by Bostonstrong - 2013-10-11 06:10:29
Shin splints are the worst, I had them in the Nashville 1/2. Double pneumonia and several days of high fevers forced a brief respite from running and they got better. KT tape helped, there are videos on YouTube of how to tape for different problems, including shin splints. But none for how to tape a pm site! Seriously I never thought of taping the incision area, do you think it would help? I tape my knees prior to each race, it acts like an extra ligament and it really helps. Then I use a patellar tendon strap on top of that, slap on a lidoderm patch for the electric shock sensations in my leg from a ruptured disk, then add compression leggings and I'm good to go run... Or jog/walk/shuffle/limp depending on what mile it is:)
tape/shin splints
by Tracey_E - 2013-10-11 08:10:00
I've been seeing a pt for tennis elbow and she's a big fan of the tape. She puts it on for me. I kind of laughed the first time and my kids roll their eyes a lot, but it works great. The way she does it, I get 5-6 days out of it.
Bostonstrong, I think you might tie me for stubborn :o)
Shin splints, the same nice dude at the running store who fitted me for my shoes gave me a regimen that works great. I battled them for over a year. I still get them, but usually only when I've done something stupid (we won't get into how often that is). Jump rope gets me worse than running.
1. good shoes. As soon as they start to lose their oomph, which is about 2 months if you use them daily, get new ones
2. Active stretching. Not just stretching a little but actively getting the muscles of the lower leg warm (this is the one I'm most guilty of skipping). Walk on heels, walk on toes, rock between heels and toes.
3. proper running technique. This is pretty close to what i was taught http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrOgDCZ4GUo
4. compression sleeves. Zensah makes them. Wear during running and/or after for recovery.
5. active ice after. Don't just plop a bag of ice on, work it. Freeze a styrofoam cup of water, peel the bottom of the cup off and actively massage along the bone with the ice. Ouch, but it works.
Marie, sorry for the hijack :)
Some mechanics of your situation...
by donr - 2013-10-11 09:10:13
I'm not a Dr, - don't even play one in ads on TV - but I are an Injunier of sorts & understand things mechanical. I'm a 77 yr old man & in my callow youth, suffered shin splints. The mechanics of shin splints & your discomfort are the same.
Tracey is spot on about all this w/o the injuniering explanation.
Let's talk shins first. There are at least TWO rather massive muscles in the calf that operate the feet. They are held to the calf bones by some thin, filmy tissue called Fascia. You should see it if you ever carve up a piece of meat. Notice that the sections of muscle are rather loosely held together by the fascia. It's pretty strong stuff, but is kinda stretchy.
If you do not run smoothly, or even if you do & do it on a hard - asphalt or concrete surface, you can easily get shin splints. ESPECIALLY if you are running distances & your foot impacts the ground heel first. In this case, one of those big muscles is relaxed & when the heel strikes the ground, it stops instantly. That big relaxed muscle keeps going till the fascia stops it. Enough of that & the fascia's anchor points along the shins get irritated. Voila - shin splints & are they ever hard to get over.
The solution? A tape that makes an "X" across the shins & goes down & under the large massive calf muscle & supports it so it stops the muscle instead of the fascia. Doesn't have to be real tight, just enough to stop that muscle.
Now to the PM site in women. You have a relatively new incision. The scar after three months is still a bit pink, bordering on red & kinda itchy & uncomfy. You now have a PM sitting in its pocket. That PM is considerably denser than muscle tissue surrounding it. Every time a foot hits the ground, there is a jarring effect where the PM is located. The surrounding muscle & sub-cutaneous fat stops instantly - the PM is relatively loose & does NOT. It stretches that scar & all the surrounding tissue a bit w/ every jarring stop the PM makes. Sorry, but you cannot use a piece of tape to support that very well - you cannot get the tape beneath the PM to catch/support it.
Tracey gave you the answer for large, bouncy breast tissue. Again, that's principally fat, not muscle & it is supported by some tough ligament material that anchors somewhere in the vicinity of the scar & collarbone. It is a "Mass" (in engineering terms, & obeys all the laws of physics starting w/ Sir Isaac Newton, who got whacked on the head while napping under an Apple tree & was inspired to go out & invent a cookie!). Every time you bounce, that tissue distributes the stress across as large an area as possible to prevent injury/soreness under normal conditions. Add in the sensitive spot where the scar incision is & you can easily get sore. Mechanics tells me that tape beneath the bouncing mass is an answer. A decent, reasonable un-stretchy bra is an even better answer.
All this time you thought this was some esoteric medical problem w/ a complex solution. Nah - all you need to do is consult any engineer w/ a decent background in mechanical dynamics who can apply the principles learned in the classes covering "Mass-spring" dynamics.
Glad to be a consultant.
Don
Info on shin splints
by Marie12 - 2013-10-11 10:10:07
To get shin splints you would need to be able to run. Unfortunately I cannot put the good advice to use because currently there is too much pain to even think about jogging. Thanks to all.
Yep!
by donr - 2013-10-12 02:10:28
OP is original Poster.
I interpreted your previous comment to mean that you were now suffering pain when you walked.
I have known people who have gotten shin splints hiking on hard surface roads. Any action that involves landing heel first can cause them - which leaves only sprinting, which is a toes only event.
I thoroughly agree w/ you that for the cardio-vascular system 2.2 mph is pretty darned good, especially if you can do it for any period of time.
Marie, I owe you one - I just went back & re-read ALL the comments. You only mentioned the incision area. It slowly morphed into shins & I responded to that.
Mea culpa. As I recall from my college days - READ THE PROBLEM!
Dinosaur Shin Splints...
by donr - 2013-10-12 08:10:36
... & their management.
My apologies to all you youngsters out there w/ shin splints. Back when I developed my management techniques in the late fifties, the only tape around was adhesive tape that DID NOT stretch. That & "Atomic Balm," which was hot enough to strip paint!
The only guys I knew who could stretch adhesive tape looked like gorillas & usually played tackle or guard on the football team - & they sure as heck did NOT get it to stretch 50 or 80 %! It suddenly snapped at about 5 %!
We also did not have pretty colors for our tape (You had two choices - white or nothing) & muscular guys w/ strange ,foreign accents in pretty tee shirts to describe how to do the job. Athletic trainers were usually shriveled up old prunes scrawnier than a Giraffe's neck & they wore white tees. Most often their advice paralleled that of the legendary Coach of the Green Bay Packers, Vince Lombardi, given to one second string tight end who had a broken arm at practice & was being hauled off to the hosp - "You've got an advantage over everyone else now, it bends both directions, Now get back in there & practice."
My approach was based on prevention, not cure, & it worked. The tape applied as I describe it, worn daily for about 3 days allowed the irritation to heal - your muscle still comes crashing down when you walk & can still irritate an already irritated batch of fascia. Note that the OP stated that she cannot jog because it hurts to walk. QED.
Well, back to the Tar Pits.
Don
Did you
by Bostonstrong - 2013-10-12 12:10:26
Let your doctor know what is going on? That much pain should be evaluated. Best wishes and keep us posted. Hope it will heal quickly.
OP?
by Marie12 - 2013-10-12 12:10:55
Does OP mean original poster? I don't think I mentioned I couldn't jog because it hurts to walk. I walk outside and on a treadmill at a pace of 3.4km (2.2 m) per hour and at an incline of 9 or 10. This is a pretty good pace at this stage of recovery and the reason I thought I could slowly start jogging.
drift
by Tracey_E - 2013-10-13 05:10:34
this conversation drifted waaaaaay off of Marie's original topic. That's why I apologized to her. BostonStrong and I have shin splints.
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running
by Tracey_E - 2013-10-10 09:10:00
3 months should be more than enough time to heal but it could be general soreness. Ice should help. Maybe start with a fast walk with brief bursts of running, work up to a full jog.
Some general thoughts unrelated to the icd... Maybe try a sports bra with more support so things are shaking around less? Some people run with more of a bouncy stride than others. A coach at my gym once worked with me to smooth out my stride when I kept getting shin splints. Different cause but same basic idea, our bodies don't always like a lot of bounce so we should try to run with minimal impact. I can't really describe what he said but youtube is probably full of videos on good running technique. Good shoes make a difference also. I went to a running store where they watched me walk then made recommendations. Ok, that's all I got! Hope some of it helps. Don't give up!